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0:03
Chase Warrington
Hey, what’s going on everyone, welcome to another episode about abroad where it’s my job to introduce you to people who have built amazing lives for themselves in various foreign corners of the globe. We’re talking with expats and thought leaders about moving abroad, remote work, visas, and all the fun and practical knowledge that you need to know to follow in their footsteps. If you’ve ever dreamed of making a life for yourself overseas, maybe working remotely or embracing long-term travel, retiring or studying abroad, or even just taking a peek inside life beyond your borders, you’ve landed in the right place.
This episode is brought to you in partnership with wonders wealth, one of the greatest challenges, and also one of the greatest opportunities for digital nomads, and expats who are building businesses abroad in the world of international taxes. It’s not the most fun subject to talk about. But it’s one of the most important and confusing that I hear about all the time from those of you in the audience. So I had Kathy on the show before she was the CEO of wonders wealth, and afterward, I became a customer of hers because her global tax strategy design course is incredible. It walks you through all the steps that you need to take to take advantage of the international tax system that is set up to help those of us that are living this international lifestyle, so highly recommended. You can find the link in the show notes for her global tax strategy design course. Check it out, and let me know what you think. My guest today is Matt Bowles. He is the co-founder of the maverick investor group, and the host of the maverick Show podcast which is one of the leading travel podcasts out there and a show that I’m a big fan of mine and he is a full-time digital nomad that’s been traveling the world and living location independently since 2007. As a true pioneer in that regard, a lot of fun catching up with him and getting to know more about his origin story, what motivated him to go location independent and some of his favorite places around the world, and how he manages to make that happen. We spent a good bit of time talking about the remote year, the program that gave him a chance to travel with a community of people, and how he’s getting ready to return on another trip with them. We also spend some time in Africa and talk about some of his favorite places and various corners of the world. So lots of fun, a lot packed into this one-hour episode. I hope you enjoy it and that you’ll help me in welcoming Matt abroad.
Yeah, so I’m currently in Germany, I think where were we when I spoke on your part? You were in Portugal. Is that right?
2:40
Matt Bowles
I was in Portugal. When you spoke on my podcast. I was there for about a month. I was there for my birthday based in Lisbon. And then all three of us went down to the Portuguese wine country and hung out there and rented a villa that had chickens, you could go get fresh eggs for breakfast from the chicken coop and all it is a remote sort of Portuguese wine country type of stuff. And then we just went around in the vineyards all day every day. So yeah, man, it was fun.
3:04
Chase Warrington
But you’re just constantly living the dream. I think it’s pretty fun to watch. Where are you now that you’re back in the US?
3:11
Matt Bowles
I am doing a quick swing through the US. So I usually spend about one month of the year in the US kind of hanging out with family and some friends and all that kind of stuff. So I was in Europe up until about two weeks ago and now doing a quick swing through the US and then back out of the country on September 1.
3:28
Chase Warrington
Did you go to banks go to the banks go to Nomad fest, is that right?
3:32
Matt Bowles
I did. Yeah. So after you and I chatted in Portugal. I went over to bonds go for a month and look at the Nomad fest which got 550 nomads from all over the world converged in this tiny little ski town that doesn’t even have an airport or anything if the flying to Sofia and then you take a car ride for like two and a half hours to get out. And yet 550 People from all over the world came so it was wild. It was really fun. Wow.
3:55
Chase Warrington
Yeah. What’s that? Tell me about the Nomad fest a little bit because I saw some pictures and everything but I wasn’t there. I would have. We would have been hanging out if that was the case. But how was it? It was cool, man.
4:06
Matt Bowles
It was a cool crowd. Do you know? Mateus, who’s this German guy, has been based in Bosco now for several years and he’s been building out the Nomad scene there. So he’s built this Bosco co-working space and from that has built out all these social activities and he’s really been kind of working on trying to attract nomads there and one of the things he does every year as he does this bonds going down best and so this was the largest one that he’s ever done he was able to break 500 people on this one and so it was just you know, it’s a series of POCs you know that nomads give on different topics and then there’s all these different you know, social events and different cool stuff you can do go to the hot springs and you go on hikes and bonfires and like all this wild stuff that he has set up so it was a fun man you know, the fest itself the official I guess programming went for about a week but of course, nomads stay for like a month. So you know, there were a whole bunch of people that just kind of like to kick them for a while and stuff and I kind of slow travel around and so I stayed for about a month. It was fun. It looks cool.
4:59
Chase Warrington
I haven’t been there yet but it’s like one of those Nomad villages that just keep popping up that I feel like I gotta go see at some point and just like you said the challenge is just like getting there it’s not just like a quick easy fight and that’s a lame terrible excuse but I mean I’m eager to go but if I’m being real that’s the friction that’s kept me from doing it but I’m considering like maybe planning to spend the winter there or something and just go check it out
5:24
Matt Bowles
It’s a cool ski town man I was there for about a week during the wintertime so I got to get a scene of that and it’s much more bustling during the wintertime this summer sure is the offseason but that also means you can get like incredible deals on accommodations and stuff like that. I mean, we’re talking about Thailand-type prices, right? Wow, that’s crazy.
5:40
Chase Warrington
Yeah, that’s a wild man. Yeah, to find that and I’ve heard someone wants to describe it. I think it was here on the show kind of like the Alps with what they said. I can’t remember. They’re like, you kind of feel like you’re in the Alps. But you’re just not on Alps prices, which is, which is quite nice.
5:55
Matt Bowles
Yeah, it was cool, man. It’s a cool little ski village town. And you get all of that by, you know, for a fraction of the price that you would have it as you said, you know, in most of western Europe for sure.
6:06
Chase Warrington
Yeah, you did. So you mentioned you’re a slow Nomad traveler, you’ve been doing that for what like, like, since way before, it was cool, like 2000, early 2013, or something. 2013.
6:17
Matt Bowles
I left Los Angeles. Yes, I lived in LA full-time, up until then. And I had been working remotely, I had started my own business. And I built it with a location-independent infrastructure. And so I could be working from anywhere I was choosing to be in LA because I love LA. And number two, I was in a relationship in LA. And my partner and I were living together. And she was doing her Ph.D. at UCLA in Egyptian history. And one day, she comes home and she’s like, Yeah, so I gotta go to Cairo for a year to do my dissertation research. And I’m like, Cool. I’m location independent. I’ve been in Cairo for a year. Let’s do this. And so we still pack up all our stuff, get rid of everything, and leave to go to Cairo for a year. And at that point, I was only expecting that it was going to be one year, but then we finished that year. And then we’re like, Well, you got a year to write your dissertation. You don’t need to go back to LA to do that. You’ve got all your research with you. Let’s just pull out a world map, pick the top five destinations we most want to see and experience and let’s just go rent an Airbnb for like two months. And each one we were like Rio de Janeiro, Cape Town, South Africa, Barcelona, and we just went and that ended up being like a year and a half
7:21
Chase Warrington
What? That’s the coolest intro to the nomad lifestyle that I think I’ve ever heard. Because most people are a little more like, calculated and like, Okay, I’m going to transition into this lifestyle. And it’s like, well thought out, and that is either that or it’s like the total opposite. And it was like I lost everything. And I just like to hit the road with a backpack. And I don’t know, that’s somewhere in between.
7:39
Matt Bowles
Yeah, I mean, it could be because I did have the location-independent business infrastructure already set up and flowing. Right. So I was able to just work from anywhere like that was already established. I didn’t have to figure out how I was gonna build that because I had already built that. And it was just about, Okay, now we’re just going to relocate and go somewhere else, you know, all that kind of stuff. So that was amazing. And then she and I ended up breaking up in about the summer of 2016. And then at that point, and like, what do I do now? Because one, it was a super long-term relationship, like a seven-year relationship. And I was feeling super isolated because I just broke up from this long-term relationship where literally, we broke up on the island of Cyprus and the military. And I’m sitting there in Nicosia, Cyprus, I don’t know another person on the island, right? And I’m like, oh, man, I just got out of this relationship. Like I need, you know, what are my next steps? I need people, I need hugs. I need you to know, community. What should I do? So I’m like, Okay, the first step is just to take a flight somewhere. So I’m like, you know, go to Skyscanner, what’s the cheapest flight out of Cyprus and go to Athens for 50 bucks. I’m like, God. So I will go to Athens. And then I get up and check into my Airbnb. And then I go to a coffee shop. And I’m like, Alright, I need to plan the rest of my life right now. And so I had heard this was in 2016. I had heard about this program called Remote year. And I was like, this is perfect for me right now. Because I need an immediate community, right? Like, I have a long-term relationship. But I also want to keep traveling. So I’m like, this is perfect because what remote year the company does is they bring together location-independent professionals who don’t know each other at the beginning. And then they facilitate a 12-month itinerary where you live in a different city each month for 12 months, across four continents, our trip was and then they take care of all your accommodations, your co-working space access 24/7 Wi-Fi, you know, they have full-time staff locally on the ground in each place. And then you travel the world together as a community, right? So you’re like this roving community. So you have that as your base and as your social anchor, and you know, community support and all that kind of stuff. And then I was like, this is perfect for me right now. Because I need community and I want to keep traveling. So I just jumped on remote year and did a year with them back in 2016.
9:47
Chase Warrington
You did so you did one of the full-year cohorts.
9:50
Matt Bowles
Yes, sir.
9:50
Chase Warrington
Wow. Where did you guys go? Like Like, I mean, was it around the world kind of thing, or was that because it’s changed? Remote years changed a little bit over the last few years. They have some, they have shorter cohorts now and They have longer trips. And I think some are really focused on certain geographic regions. And so were you on one of those, like worldwide trips?
10:07
Matt Bowles
We did. We did four continents. So we started in Kuala Lumpur. And we did three months in Asia at the time, it was Kuala Lumpur, and then Phnom Penh, Cambodia. And then we did the Thai island of Copan. Yang. So we just lived on the beach for five weeks in Copan Yang, which was, which was all crazy. I mean, these are all super different experiences, right? I mean, you know, and you’ve traveled and you know, but how different I see Phnom Penh is from like an island in Thailand is that so we had all of these experiences in Asia. And then we went to Europe, and we did Europe for three months. And then we went to Mexico City. And then we spent the last five months in South America and went to Colombia, Peru, and Argentina and did the whole thing, man. So it was amazing. The people that did that program with me, our family for life, are still, some of my best friends to this day, it was profitable. And as you mentioned, the remote year has evolved significantly since then, I did the seventh program ever. Their first program ever was still, you know, orbiting when our program started. So we were in literally the first year of remote operations.
11:08
Chase Warrington
Was it bumpy at all? Like was it a new thing? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was my first year.
11:14
Matt Bowles
Oh, yeah, man. But, it was amazing, right? Because the primary value that you’re paying for there, or at least I was paying for was, you know, and it’s like, what type of person is going to leave everything and everyone that they know, and commit upfront to travel the world for a year with a bunch of strangers that they’ve never met? I want to meet every single person that makes that decision. And I want to hear all of their stories because those are my people, man. So that’s why we got into the podcasting game.
11:41
Chase Warrington
Because we both said it, they’re like, oh, that sounds perfect. I want to talk to every single one of them and ask what is your story? And why the hell are you here? And there’s a lot to be learned there.
11:51
Matt Bowles
Exactly, man. But yeah, so after you finish your book, your program, you become an alumnus. And then they gave me as an alumnus the ability to drop into other programs for a month at a discounted rate and join their program for a month. So I did that in several different locations, including Valencia, Spain. You and I have talked about my time there. And that was me dropping into a remote program that was going through Valencia for a month. So I did that. And I dropped into a program that was in Marrakech and you know, in Morocco and some other different locations, and it was very cool because you also have a connection with those people. After all, like, Oh, you did promote you’re to like, what was your experience like, and like you have this sort of shared experience. So you’re immediately welcomed into the program. So I did a number of those kinds of alumni drop-in months. And then as you mentioned, they have also expanded their offerings. And now they offer four-month programs. one-month programs even offer treats that are even shorter than that, I think, but I am going to do in a couple of weeks, my second official remote year program. And this time, I’m doing a four-month program. And this is their first-ever all-Africa itinerary. So we’re going to do South Africa for a month, Tanzania for a month, Kenya for a month, and Senegal from
13:04
Chase Warrington
Whoa, is this your first time in any of those countries? Because I think you’ve traveled extensively in Africa if I’m not mistaken.
13:10
Matt Bowles
I have been to all of those countries before but I love them. And I am excited to go back and spend more time there and do more things there. Because some of them I was only there for like Tanzania was only for like a week, you know, and I just spent a couple of days in Dar Salam and then went out to the island of Zanzibar for like a week, you know. And this time you know, I’m excited to do a lot more stuff in that country. Nairobi, I’ve spent about a month in Kenya, Senegal, I’ve spent about a month in Dakar, which is an unbelievable, incredible city, and then Cape Town, I spent about three months there. But that’s also an amazing city. So I’m excited to go back.
13:42
Chase Warrington
Is there anywhere in particular like is there one that’s kind of like, I don’t know, for me, when I’ve got these long trips planned out, I’ve always kind of got that one place in my mind that I’m just really itching to go to. And sometimes it’s like in the middle of the itinerary and you just kind of can’t wait to get there. But is there any place like that for you?
13:57
Matt Bowles
Man You know, on this particular trip? I don’t know. I mean, Dakar in Senegal left an incredible impression on me, man. It was a special place. So I’m super excited to get back there. And then I’ve been to Ghana before as well for about a month. And so this year, I’m going to go for the week surrounding New Year’s Eve. I’m going to go with a group of friends of mine to Accra in Ghana, and they have this Afrobeat festival called Afro Chela, like Coachella but with Afro beats, and they do it in our craw at the very end of December. And then we’re going to spend New Year’s Eve there, and we’re going to do kind of the whole thing, and I cry and Ghana is also one of my favorite cities in the world. I mean, spectacular. So I’m excited.
14:42
Chase Warrington
What’s cool about it, I know nothing. I mean, so a bunch of these cities in West Africa are right on the coast.
14:48
Matt Bowles
I mean, I spent 2019. I probably spent about five months on the continent. 2019 I spent a couple of months in Cape Town and then I went up to West Africa was my first time in West Africa and I did a month in Nigeria in Lagos I did a month in Accra in Ghana, a month in Dakar in Senegal and then I did a real quick swing through the Ivory Coast. One of the cool things is that these are all right on the coast right? So you have these major capital cities that are on the water, right? So you have these unbelievable beach parties. I mean, I am crying Ghana has a Sunday party on Labadi Beach, which gets 5000 people on a regular Sunday, it’s not a festival. It’s not a special event. There’s just lined with DJs on the beach. 5000 people came out dancing the whole day under the stars. I mean, it’s like it’s just incredible. The nightlife is completely next level. Incredible. And the country is just it’s infused with music, just bumping through the streets. I mean, even like the local street kiosks that are just selling you know, beers and basic things. You can just go and sit down at a pullout table. This is kind of like right in front of the little street kiosk. They’ve got speakers that are bumping this incredible music. I mean, you’re just in this amazing environment, man, it just infused my spirit with wonderfulness. Man, I’m super excited to go back.
15:57
Chase Warrington
Oh, man. Yeah, Africa is such a weird thing to say, because it’s such a massive piece of land and involves so many countries and cultures and a lot of diversity there that I think might get overlooked sometimes. But it feels like it’s just generally speaking an area for instance, that as I get, I guess, I struggled to get people to come on the show that can talk extensively about traveling in Africa or moving to Africa, it’s very easy to find people who have said, like, oh, yeah, I went and spent a year in Brazil, or I spent a year in France, or even like, you know, like Bali or something like that. But generally speaking, like I’ve struggled to get people on here that have a lot of knowledge about Africa. But I do get this sense that this is changing a little bit. I’m seeing more digital nomads, talking about spending time there, even some like expat families that are going to different parts of Africa. So I don’t know, I’m curious, like, you’ve spent a lot of time there. I mean, do you see that shift happening? I guess, if not like why? Or what do people miss?
16:54
Matt Bowles
Yeah, I mean, first of all, to your point, Africa is massive, right? About 56 countries, which are all distinct and different and have different languages and histories and cultures and all that stuff, right? And a lot of the different regions of Africa are very different from each other, right? North Africa, which is primarily Arabic speaking, you know, Egypt and Morocco, and Algeria and Tunisia and stuff like that, obviously, very different from West Africa, East Africa, Central Africa, South Africa. So all of these regions are very different, different people, different languages, all that kind of stuff. I mean, it’s like traveling through any other concept, right? Traveling through Asia, it’s a lot of very different countries and cultures and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I think when you talk about digital nomads in Africa, I mean, the first thing that’s important to talk about is the fact that there are digital nomads that are from Africa, right, so one of my very good friends who I traveled with on that entire West Africa trip that I just told you about Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal Ivory Coast trip, she’s born and raised in Kenya, and then she went to college in Uganda. And she is a full-time itinerant digital nomad, you know, who just travels the world and works remotely and all of that. And so I’ve interviewed her on my podcast. She’s a really good friend of mine. So there are plenty of digital nomads that are from Africa, born and raised in Africa that are digital nomads that are traveling around Africa, in addition to obviously traveling outside of Africa too. But you know, that’s I think one important thing when we talk about digital nomads is that you know, digital nomads are from everywhere, and they travel around, right? So I think as you’re traveling around Africa, you will meet tons of amazing people including ads that are there that are you know, traveling there that are from maybe another country in Africa or this is that you know, incredible entrepreneurs seen in a lot of these cities. That means Nairobi, Kenya, remarkable entrepreneur hub, you know, incredible co-working spaces rooftop, you know, rooftop bars, espresso, you know all that kind of stuff, like I mean it’s incredible.
18:38
Chase Warrington
Wow, that’s super cool. I think it’s good it’s a good reminder that there’s a tourist path for nomads, I think that you could easily follow and to get off that path from time to time I think is a nice reminder and especially after you’ve been doing this for a long time, you’re always craving something a little different, right? Like you want to change I mean, you adopted this lifestyle so that you weren’t sitting sedentary and experiencing the same thing every day and so changing it up is necessary and I think it’s good it’s a good reminder as you know, you can break free of the maybe the more traditional Nomad hubs if we’re going to call it that and break out into some other places for sure. Yeah, that funny man talking about remote years brings back some good memories. I live in Valencia, especially might have been around that same time I’m trying to think but there were tons of remote year groups coming through there and I was like, I constantly was meeting up with them and hanging out like you know, groups just passing through and because I was living there was a cool dynamic like they were I was kind of like envious of them. I’m like, Man, you guys are traveling all over the world and on to another cool place next week or next month, and at the same time, there was sort of some mutual envy, I think because they’re like, man, you’re living in this awesome city. Like I didn’t even know about Valencia and you’re living here full-time now. And that was always like a good time we’d meet up for drinks or tapas or whatever. And yeah, man always enjoyed that. I’m a big fan of the remote year concept and would love to join one of those cohorts one time. I think I’d probably do one like you’re doing for like four months or something would be cool.
20:03
Matt Bowles
He is a cool man. And you know, for some people, it’s been something where it’s like, oh, that was my entry into nomadic because they make it very easy, right? I mean, it’s like turnkey digital nomads, right? Like, here’s your community, here’s your accommodation, they take care of your flights, they take care of your co-working space. Like I mean, all the admin stuff is done. Here’s the stuff to do on the ground. Here’s the cool thing, right? Well, just you know, and then there’s just a built-in community so you are never lonely. I mean, it’s like all of the Nomad challenges are taken care of in one turnkey package. And so for a lot of people, that’s their entry into the lifestyle, right? And then they kind of kept going for me. I had been, as we’ve talked about being nomadic for three years, full-time, before doing a remote year. I did it. It was amazing for me, because of the community aspect, right? Like, that was the main value, wow, you’re gonna bring together all of these incredibly fascinating, remarkably interesting people. And I just get to go travel the world and have adventures with them for the year. I mean, that’s just insane, right? Because it’s like, these are the type of people where whatever city you’re in, you can just be like, Who wants to go on a site trip and go, you know, like, we were in Lima, Peru, you know, and that was our base for the month. And I was like, Oh, who wants to go to Bolivia for eight nights and go mountain bike, the world’s most dangerous road outside of La Paz, and then go down to the salt flats and go through the salt flats for like, four nights and, you know, be off-grid and do that whole thing. And eight people were like, I do and they’re just you go with eight people, you know, I mean, it was like, it’s like that kind of thing for the whole year.
21:28
Chase Warrington
That sounds so I do like, like, like, when we’re talking about it’s like, who doesn’t want to do that? Is there, like, any major flaw in the system? Or something? Like, I mean, is it incredibly expensive? And like, therefore just not accessible to a lot of people? Or? I mean, it’s, it just seems so perfect. Like, like, Is there a drawback if there isn’t any downside? I mean, it’s for remote professionals, right? It’s not for backpackers, the right kind of thing, if you mean, you’ve got to have at least enough money.
21:54
Matt Bowles
Yeah, you’re working professionally. So you, you know, you’d have to, I mean, you’d have to have enough money to pay for it. But I mean, the prices are changing, you know. So whenever people listen to this, they can just go to the website and see what it is. But you know, but your price covers your accommodations, your co-working space, all your international airfare to every nation, transport on the ground, you know, all kinds of stuff, and you’ve got full-time staff there. So it means, you have to remember too though it’s, it’s just your base, I mean, you can of course go and do whatever you want not to like obligated to do this or that group activity or whatever you want to opt-out for a month, you want to just take a side trip by yourself or go visit people. I mean, you know, I left for most of December just to go spend Christmas with my family and do a work retreat with my staff and you know, that kind of stuff. And you know, then came back and met up with the group. So you can do whatever you want. You’re not obligated. It’s just really nice to have as a base, somebody else taking care of your stuff. And then your community, you know, therefore you want to hang with them. Yeah. For me, it was very cool. And so that’s what I’m going to do again, you know, for four months, and this is their first ever all-Africa itinerary. So I’m super excited about that one, the support
22:54
Chase Warrington
You’re like, you’re like the seasoned veteran, you’re like the guy you’ve already done this, you know, you’ve been on road, you’ve been alumni and alumni are like, like The Godfather, and the Godfather is here. He’s been here, he’s done that?
23:05
Matt Bowles
Well, I think there’s gonna be a lot of alumni coming in on this Africa itinerary, which will be really cool. So it’s a lot of experienced travelers and different folks that are coming on so it’d be fun,
23:13
Chase Warrington
The man sounds awesome. I’m pretty excited to follow along and I think something you reference there that is good to know is I think one of those potential downsides could be for somebody like you and I am I guess pretty extroverted. We enjoy being around people, but like, not everybody is necessarily like that. I know some people who feel when they get in those groups, they feel kind of like trapped, you know, like they don’t want to go even on a low like a lighter scale like I don’t want to go join that like expat group or that digital nomad group, like you know, that meets up on Wednesdays to work together or whatever, because I don’t want to feel like trapped in that. So I think knowing that you’re not trapped, you’re not in there for a full year or four months or whatever, you can go off and do your own thing. But we’re going to provide you with the base, and you’re in all the necessities. That’s the key
23:57
Matt Bowles
Yeah, I mean, and I think in terms of just expanding on you know if we want to talk about downsides, and it’s not just too remote but I think any type of traveling around there is oftentimes a very easy route to hang out only with other travel, right. So whether that’s like you’re traveling the world with a company like a remote year, or there are several other works, travel programs, well, all some of which I have patronized as well, and it’s very easy to just hang out with all of those international folks and just go out with them every night and go to the thing and hang out with them. And you know, and really sort of not immerse or integrate or connect with the local area. But I think that’s also the case even when you’re just traveling by yourself, you could like plug into this expat group and go to this expat bar and like, hang out with all these expats or go to this Nomad hub and all these other travelers and I think that’s a very easy thing to do. And I think it certainly can be a downside if you’re not intentionally conscientious about making sure that you’re doing things that are connecting you with the local community and the local place and the local Because ultimately, that’s a huge reason for why we’re traveling in the first place, right?
23:57
Chase Warrington
Yeah absolutely. I mean, like we were kind of touching on earlier, it’s about getting out of the mundane norm and shaking things up. And you know, having something new on the horizon constantly, and you’re not doing that, then you’re kind of like, Wait, like, there are some downsides to the lifestyle. We’ve selected, right, like, I mean, there’s, there are some drawbacks. And if you’re not fully embracing and enjoying the reasons that you went on this journey, then you’re sort of doing yourself a disservice.
25:29
Matt Bowles
Yeah. 100%.
25:30
Chase Warrington
What, you know what that’s funny, because one of the downsides for me, and I want to use this as a segue to dive into what you do professionally because I find it pretty fascinating that you’ve built location independent business that solves a problem and a pain point that I have, which is and so I’m gonna give a whole bunch of context here and circle back because I think I think this is kind of interesting. So as an American guy, this is not just an American thing, but like, this is just something that I know for sure is true in my culture. And in our culture, like you’re kind of brought up thinking that like, what you do is like, you get a career as you go to college, you get a career, and then you like, buy your house as soon as you possibly can, because your house is the way to build wealth, and you got to own and you can’t rent and then you like, you know, you progress through life from there. And one of the big challenges that I faced was when my wife and I decided we were going to go nomadic, we were on that path, right? Like we were, we had stable careers and all the things and we had a house and we were paying it down fast. And we were very proud of ourselves at that moment. But we sacrificed all that we, you know, this is one of those like, quote-unquote, downsides. We kind of got rid of that path, we abandoned that path and went on a different path where we were renting. And we were, you know, not saving as much as we should have been. And we were living for experiences and not for the future. And all of those things. There are other cliches. And so circling back, like that’s continued to be one of those big challenges for me is like, where we’re not like, for instance, we’re still renting, we’re not owning where we’re not like, it’s a lot for us to think about, like living on the road and figuring out where we want to go next month. And also like managing rental properties back in the US. It’s also as an American, it’s hard for me to buy rental properties in other countries. So it all kind of like I think gravitates around what Maverick investor group does. And I want to ask you to explain a little bit more and then dive into like, I would love to know, kind of the origin story of the company and a little bit more about like what you guys do? Yeah, man.
27:21
Matt Bowles
So the origin story is that my entire professional career up until the age of 30, I was working in the nonprofit advocacy space. And so as I was doing that, I was thinking to myself, Man, I am never going to make a lot of money from God with salary and nonprofit space, I should figure that’s it and so what I did is I bought my first house, and I bought a four-bedroom house. And I rented out three of my bedroom friends of mine that had three streams of income. And then in the first year of owning that house, it appreciated more than my entire annual salary. And I’m like that. So you’re telling me I could have just sat on my couch and played video games and not even gone to work and made more money than I did working full time for a year? That’s interesting. And so then I started reading everything I could read about real estate. And then I started, you know, I did a cash-out refinance. And then I started buying more rental properties. And I started buying them in out-of-state markets. And then my friends started approaching me and they’re like, dude, how are you buying this rental property? You know, can you show me how to do that, too? I was like, Sure, I’ll show you how to do it. And you just buy the same stuff that I’m buying, if you want, I’ll show you how we do it. And I started helping my friends buy rental properties. And what I realized was that these real estate brokers that were helping us to buy these rental properties, were making a commission on the properties we were buying, but we were not paying it because in the United States, the seller pays 100% of the real estate brokerage commission and the buyer pays nothing. I’m like, well, that’s cool. They’re adding value to us. They’re helping us to, you know, find these properties and all that and they’re getting compensated for it, but we’re not paying it fantastic. Love that arrangement. And so then, so then I said to understand the business model, right? So then 30 years old, we had a change in management, in my organization one day, I walked into work completely out of the way and got fired from my job. Unexpected, right? And that was one of those, like, you gotta give us your phone, you gotta be up by five, like, you know, and I’m like, what? And so I can literally remember standing there in the parking lot with no phone. And I’m like, Okay, next steps, like driving to a cell phone store to buy a cell phone to call my mother to tell her that I got fired, right? So I like driving to the cell phone store. And on that drive, I can remember saying to myself, alright, you know what, I am not going to apply for another job, I am going to figure out how to start my own business and chart a completely different path. And there’s only one problem. I had no idea how to start a business. And so after I went to the cell phone store, I then drove to the bookstore and anybody that knows LA, I drove to the Barnes and Noble at the Grove in Los Angeles. And I walked into the store and went to the business books, and I started reading books on how to start a business. This was in 2007. And I did every day. I just drove to the bookstore and I sat there reading books on how to start a business in the business section. I wasn’t buying the books, Chase. I didn’t have a job. I was just sitting there. I ordered an espresso and I just read them in the bookstore and so one day I walked in, and there was a new book in the business book section that had just come out that day. And it was called The Four-Hour Workweek by some 29-year-old kid that nobody had ever heard of. Timothy Ferriss picked it up, looked at the back, looked at the back cover, and said, this is the one I’m reading today. Read it the day it came out. And I said that’s what I’m doing. And so then I said, okay, so location independent business, you know, and then what kind of business can I build? Well, I understand this real estate thing, right, I’m already doing it, I already have a demand for it, and my friends are asking me to help them already. If I could just start a real estate brokerage, that would mean that I could get on, you know, the brokerage side of this, and I could monetize it. But again, remember, the sellers pay all the real estate broker fees, so I could just continue helping my friends, buy real estate, and not have to charge my friends anything. And now all of a sudden, I could make money and build a business out of what I was like, that is for me because I don’t like selling stuff. I especially don’t like selling stuff to my friends. But I’ve had to just keep helping them. And now all of a sudden get paid, done. like, sign me up for that. So then I was like, okay, but I also realized one more thing, I don’t have most of the skills required to start a business. So I reached out to two friends of mine that have entirely different and complementary skill sets. I was like, let’s come together as business partners and build this business. We all have the skills if we put our talents together to do this. And so we did, and we found it in 2007. But I sent them both a copy of The Four-Hour Workweek. I like to read this book first because we’re gonna build this with a location-independent infrastructure. And my two business partners and I are still together today. 15 years later, we have never lived in the same city ever since the founding of the company. So we’re like, we live in different places. We’re building this virtually like this is happening. And then we just built a virtually and so you know, basically what we do is we help people buy patch flooring rental properties as an investment. They are completely turnkey, which means we’re talking about single-family homes that have already been fully renovated. They already have a long-term tenant in place on a lease paying rent, so they’re cash-flowing. And they have a local property management company who is around there locally who’s collecting the rent, handling any maintenance calls, dealing with the tenant so that you don’t have to be either the landlord or the rehabber, but you own the actual deeded real estate and you get all the benefits from that. And you can own it from anywhere. So that’s what we do.
32:09
Chase Warrington
Wow, man, that is hilarious that you reaFour-Hourr Hour Workweek on the day it came out. And the way that that changed the trajectory of your life, which tally relates to. And I know many, many people listening probably and, and others out there that that book was pivotal in their life
32:27
Matt Bowles
100% Man, absolute game changer. And that informed the entire trajectory. And then from there, we just continued building the business. And you know, one of the things that we said is, you know, this is going to give us also a great advantage not just for us, because we can be location independent, and our staff can be location independent, but it’s going to be of great advantage to our customers because it’s going to allow us the agility to help people buy in the best markets in the US which change over time. Right. So most real estate brokerages, all they have to sell is the properties that are right there in their local area. Right? So if you go to a real estate agent in any city, and say, Hey, is your city a good city to invest in? Should I buy real estate? Yes, it’s great, you know, because they have nothing else to sell. So they have to retrofit their marketing materials to sell the product that they have, right? What we do is we flip that entirely around. We say okay, let’s put the real estate investor first, right out by our customers, first and provide them the agility to buy in the best markets, which change over time, right? So we don’t care which real estate market you buy, and we are tally agnostic, we can help you to bind the ones that are most advantageous at the time that you’re ready to buy. So 10 years ago, the most advantageous markets in the US were very different from what they are today, right? Plenty of clients have bought rental properties and built portfolios through us for over a decade. We’ve helped them to build their portfolio over time and to diversify across markets.
32:27
Chase Warrington
Wow, man that does that. As you said it flips the whole process upside down. It solves a problem for someone like myself who says like yeah, I want to build wealth through real estate but I also am not there. I don’t want to deal with the headache literally. I meant I’m not joking. I’m gonna just say this because we’re talking like my wife and I have this discussion weekly if not daily, that we’re like we want to quote-unquote-unquote smart things. We know there’s opportunity out there. We’ve experienced the value of knowledge to buy and sell at the right time and what real estate can do. I like coming from a real estate family. I’ve got uncles and cousins and family who are all like you big-time real estate people. And so I just sit there and I go, What am I missing here? I mean, it’s great that yeah, I’m sitting here on the beach and in the Mediterranean, but like, I also want a piece of that action back there. Do you find that a lot of your clientele are living a similar lifestyle to you or me or is that somewhat separate?
34:40
Matt Bowles
Yeah, we’ve got a whole mix. So first lately. We are the number one provider-flowing single-family family rental properties in the US to the digital nomad community. I just gave a keynote talk at the Bosco Nomad fest about real estate investing for digital nomads, how to buy cash-flowing real estate rental properties from anywhere in the world, and how to use them to finance your epic international lifestyle. I mean, that was the topic of my keynote. And so Absolutely, we have nomads from all over the world that are buying rental properties for us without needing to live there or manage them directly. And we also have clients that are not nomads that work with us. I, and people that live in a very expensive state like California, where it does not make a lot of sense to buy a rental property. And we’re helping those California residents buy rental properties in US markets that make a lot more sense for cash flow like St. Louis and Kansas City and Indianapolis, price-to-rent-to-rent ratios are dramatically more advantageous to the investor than they would be in California or New York City.
35:41
Chase Warrington
Yeah, I got a friend and a Spanish friend, his whole model is he’s a business owner in Valencia, and he buys rental properties around Valencia. And his whole thing is like, he buys like, like a cheapo. And so like for us in the US that might be equal to buying $100,000 homes or 100 and $125,000 homes and he buys the cheap ones. And his whole idea is like, okay, you know, using that math, I’ll buy 10 $100,000 homes instead of one $1 million home because I can buy a 1 million dollar home for let’s say 10,000 a month, but I can rent those 10 $100,000 homes for 1500 a month. So I’m increasing my cash flow by 50% therefore, and so anyway, this whole concept has been wrapped up in my mind like that, that additional cash flow he can in his case, he’s reinvesting in the business. But if you were like you know a digital nomad type or someone who wanted to live abroad literally just paying your full salary, it could be paying you your monthly salary, wherever it is that you’re living, it could be covering all your expenses. I had a guy on the show a couple of seasons ago who had set up a great situation where he had bought a home in the US. He wasn’t even American, but he bought a home in the US. He used it once just like you and actually, he goes back there one month a year. It’s like his home base. He’s got his stuff stored there in an owner’s closet, but he Airbnbs it the rest of the year. He’s got a property manager there that manages it all and the cash flow from that. So he’s got people paying down the mortgage building the wealth for him, the house is appreciating, and the cash flow the extra cash flow pays for all of his expenses in his digital nomad life. He’s Phil if you’re listening, you know, I’m talking about you living in South America, and just you know, like, it pays for all of his expenses every month. And it’s just one house.
37:21
Matt Bowles
Yeah, I mean, likewise, I have interviewed multiple people who are traveling the world full time living entirely off of their passive rental income. So any work that they choose to do, or projects that they choose to do or other stuff is entirely you know, on their terms, and you know, if they feel like it or not, because their passive rental income is financing their entire lifestyle, and they’re retired and able to just, you know, travel around the world and do their thing. So pretty amazing.
37:50
Chase Warrington
We’ll be right back to the show after a quick break. For a note from our sponsor. This season is brought to you by my good friends over at insured nomads. They’re the absolute best in the business when it comes to providing health travel and medical insurance for nomads, expats, and just all forms of world travelers. I know insurance is often something that’s overlooked when we’re fantasizing about traveling the world. But we must address this because often the policy you have in your home country isn’t going to cover you while you’re abroad. And it’s also a requirement as a lot of people may not reliably buy private travel or expat insurance as it’s called sometimes to obtain a visa or even enter certain countries, es. So, fortunately, there are companies like insured nomads to help us with this. Not only do they have excellent coverage and great prices, but they also provide first-class class experience with additional perks and best-in-class technology via their app. It’s an amazing experience, I can’t recommend it enough,h. Now, this is a company that was built by world travelers for world travelers, so they know what it’s like to find yourself in a difficult medical situation abroad. And they want to keep you from having that same bad experience. So the next time you’re planning a trip abroad, whether it’s for a week or a lifetime, check out insured nomads via the link in the show notes. If you’ve made it this far into the episode and you’re still enjoying yourself, then I would love to ask a quick favor, open up the app that you’re using to listen to this podcast and leave a quick review. You can do this in Spotify, Apple P.O and just about any platform that allows podcast listening now if you can’t find that in the interface of the app, then scroll down in the show notes and find the rate this podcast.com/about abroad and you should be able to leave it from there. Thanks so much. We really appreciate it and hope you enjoy the rest of the show. What does someone need to do like pretend we’re just talking like you’re saying like I want to get okay, I’m interested, like what do we do from there? What does this process look like?
39:39
Matt Bowles
So the beautiful thing as I just mentioned is that 100% of our services are entirely free to you. So one of the things we want to do is do a video consultation with every single person that we work with, understand your particular situation, your buying criteria, your real estate investment goals, you know all of that and then we’ll help you to take the next steps for you. So if you want to qualify for a mortgage, we have preferred lenders, we can introduce you to and you can qualify and see what type of mortgage rates and terms you would be able to qualify for, then we can talk about market selection, right, which market is going to be the best for you based on your criteria, and then we’ll show you and give you access to look at the rental properties, we can connect you with the property managers, you know, all of this kind of stuff, so that we can basically hold your hand and walk next to you and facilitate giving you the resources to conduct all your due diligence. So you’re going to be doing the due diligence because it’s important to independents from a third party, so for example, you’re going to your home inspector to go in and inspect the entire property, and give that inspection report to you. We’re not saying Oh, trust us, you know, we’ve already done the due diligence, no, we’re gonna show you how to do it yourself independently through third parties, you’re gonna send your appraise your inspector, all this kind of stuff, we’ll give you the resources on exactly how to do that. But you’re going to do it independently. But we will be there to walk you through the entire process. And then once you’ve selected your property, and you’re comfortable with it, and you’ve gone through the due diligence, and you close, you can close from anywhere. So you can have a mobile notary meet you anywhere you happen to be. You can close from outside the country, you don’t have to come into the US and then you will own the property and then you know, cash flow will start coming into your account as soon as you close.
41:15
Chase Warrington
Nice. Sounds awesome. That’s great. Is this? Are you an investor yourself? Like do? Do you do some investing?
41:21
Matt Bowles
Well, I told you Yeah, I mean, this is how the whole thing started, right? I just bought a rental property about two months ago, and the St. Louis Missouri market has been one of our most popular markets over the last year. You know, I mentioned to you that the most popular markets have changed over time, right? So you know, when we were, you know, 1011 years ago, the most popular markets were Phoenix, Arizona, right after the great real estate crash, because everything was so inexpensive there, but now the prices have gone up so much, and rents haven’t kept pace with that. So now you have this process in some of these markets called the yield compression, where if you continue to buy there, you’re paying a lot more, but you’re not getting a lot more rent, right? So it’s a less optimized situation. Our clients who bought their products 10 years ago crushed it, but now it makes more sense to buy in these other markets. So we’ve probably helped people buy-in, you know, 12 different states or so, you know, over the last, you know, a decade plus. And so you know, when people come into this now we’ll talk to them about what the most advantageous markets are to buy in right now.
43:02
Chase Warrington
Do non-Americans Americans participate? Or do you mainly serve as people from
43:11
Matt Bowles
Absolutely, yeah, nope, foreign nationals are more than well there are, there’s going to be some different terms for them. Because for example, if you’re an American, and you work for an American company, and you have an American income, and you file American taxes, and you have an American credit score, and all that, you are going to be more likely to qualify for conventional financing as an American bank and get the most advantageous terms for your mortgage. Right, though most of our Ucare can put 20% down, get an 80% mortgage, you get the lowest interest rates, all that kind of stuff, if you are a foreign national, and you’re not a US resident, you don’t have a US credit score, that kind of stuff, then there are other there ares, there are private financing options, those are usually going to be a little bit more money down a little bit higher interest rate, but they’re also usually going to asset-based asset based loan where recourse loan, where they just secure the loan against the property. And they say, you know, if you don’t pay the loan, we’ll just take the property like it’s not a problem. So they don’t have all of the income and credit and all of this, you know, qualifications, and it goes on your credit report. And none of that, right, which also applies, by the way, not just to foreign nationals, but we have clients that are buying rental properties, self-directed direct payment plans, and other things like that, that are going to not qualify for conventional bank financing. And so they’ll take the private financing and do it that way.
43:33
Chase Warrington
Gotcha. Very cool. Good to know, I can imagine a lot of people’s wheels turning right now. That could be useful to my lifestyle. I don’t often mean, I think people just assume this stuff’s not accessible. Like it, it sounds further from the realm of possibility. One thing that I think America does well is we facilitate doing business and we grease those wheels and make things happen. And so I mean, I know people that have businesses or foreigners, they live in other parts of the world, but they have businesses established in the US just because it’s, you know, advantageous to do business from there. And we make the process of formation and, you know, and regulation and all that pretty easy, comparatively, and real estate is, I think, no different.
44:14
Matt Bowles
Yeah, and a lot of people are amazed when they find out how inexpensive it is. And when I say people, I mean people from more expensive markets, whether that be California, or whether it be you know, Toronto or Australia or Tokyo or any of these other places single-family family homes they think, Oh, who’s expensive. Now, that’s, you know, over a million dollars, that’s this kind of thing. Whereas in the markets that we’re talking about Chase, we are talking about a fully renovated single-family family home in a nice suburban area, an owner-occupied occupied neighborhood that you can get for starting around 100,000 US Dollars fully renovated, okay, it’s crazy, right? And about 100,000 to 200,000 is about the range, right? Because what you want to do is want to be in those real estate investors’ sweet spots, right? So when you go into these markets, the first thing is what we talked about: kind of the macro dynamics of these markets, they have strong real estate fundamentals, they have strong economic indicators, they have real price-to-rent to rent ratios. But even within that, you want to make sure you’re buying in the right parts of that city. So if you’re buying ng that’s too expensive, too high-end luxury stuff, you’re not going to be able to rent it for enough money to make it cash flow and to make sense. Likewise, on the other side of the spectrum, if you are buying things in undesirable areas, you’re not going to be able to attract quality tenants that are gonna pay their remand t on time and stay for the land long term, and you’re not going g to have great resale exit strategy, the primary homeowners if you’re not in an area where primary homeowners want to live and all of that, and so you want to be in what we call the real estate investors sweet spots of those cities, right. And that’s the important thing. So in the cities that we’re talking about most of these Midwestern areas, right now, at the time of the recording, that’s about 100,000. Some of them even start a little bit below that up to about $200,000. That kind of price point is really where you’re going to have the high rental demand from quality tenants, and also have the resale ability down the road to owner occupants when you’re ready to sell under the retail market.
46:05
Chase Warrington
Just hearing you I mean, the words rattle off your tongue so easily. And like for the common person, it’s just like a foreign language that you’re like, Yeah, I don’t know. I want real estate, I want money. Can you make that happen? Maverick? Exactly. Yeah. And so these are all the things that we’ve been developing for 15 years cultivate, right? Where in the US Dubai, and then within those, you know, those metropolitan areas, where specifically within those metro areas are gonna give you the best quality tenants, the highest demand property, the best exit strategies, right, so that your investment can be as profitable as possible, right. So you can maximize your net operating income while you’re holding it, and you can maximize your upside potential when you’re going to sell it. And are the factors that we take into account. And we’ve been developing things for 15 years. And what’s amazing about your story, too, is that you built this from the beginning with location independence in mind, which I think you’re a bit of a pioneer in that way. I mean, like, you know, the fact that you were reading The Four Hour Workweek when it came out, like the day it came out means that you are already at the forefront of that revolution. Because Have you ever heard or seen the Tim Ferriss South by SouthWest presentation of that, like the year that our workweek came out, isn’t it? He recently uploaded it to his podcast like it within the last six months or something? Have you seen it or heard it?
47:23
Matt Bowles
I don’t think that I have seen that.
47:25
Chase Warrington
Okay, so it’s from the same year as I believe it’s 2007. And I could be wrong. But I can go to Tim Ferriss, his podcast, and scroll back for a couple of months. And you’ll find someone apparently recorded it and just recently shared it with him. But he’s at South by Southwest presenting the concept of The Four Hour Workweek. And it was like, I mean, nobody knew who he was, the last-minutecast minute addition to the thing. And like, it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t like anybody knew who he was and presents this concept, all these like, you know, just high performing, you know, workaholic types that are there, these high performers that just like, can’t imagine anything other than working like eight hour work weeks, and you know, working towards retirement, and he presents this whole other lifestyle, and it’s hilarious to listen to live. But what I’m trying to say there is like, you’re a bit of a pioneer, you’ve built this business with location independence in mind, and I don’t know that it was necessarily travel that motivated you if it was, you know, correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s cool that it to be able to travel and you kind of had that base before going out on the road, like you were able to say, yeah, alright, let’s go to Cairo. Sure. I can do that.
48:27
Matt Bowles
Yeah, I mean, I think location independence is the value, and then whatever type of way you choose to exercise that freedom is totally up to you. And that can change over time. Right. So I was location independent from 2007 to 2013. But I was not a digital nomad. During that period, my first six years of location independence, I chose to be based in LA, because I loved LA, I was in a relationship in LA, you know, it was just kind of where I wanted to be at no business purpose there, we weren’t doing any real estate in LA, I just chose to be there and to work from there, because I loved it. And so at the starting 2013, I made a different choice about how to exercise my location pendants. And so I think location independence and achieving freedom is the goal that’s beneficial to every single person, and then every single person is going to have their ideal lifestyle, right, and they can exercise that freedom however they choose with whatever is best for them. And that can change over time for each of us. Right? So you know, your lifestyle now might be different from what you chose three, four or five years ago might be different from what you chose five years from now and that’s cool because you can make tho. After all, tents because you have that freedom.
49:34
Chase Warrington
Yeah, that’s that dream. I think for me, that was what I wanted. I mean, I was more motivated directly by travel like I was just really craving to get outside of my norm. I’d been living in the south of the US for forever and was just really wanting more than my one or two weeks of being abroad. And I craved hearing other languages and just like eating different food, I mean, all the sort of cliche stuff that you love about travel. But I just did what I really wanted. And so I was just like, willing to sacrifice so much. And I think subconsciously my levels are part of my life motivation to kind of advocate for the future of work and do this podcast and all that because I hated that I had to make photos to fulfill that dream to travel like it did irk me because I am pretty professionally motivated. You know, I do think about those things associated with things like finances, and the future and retirement and all that stuff just baked into my brain, I can’t make it go away. So havitrade-off that trade to achieve location independence, to be able to travel and scratch that edge. That was like experiencing other places around the world. I hated that I had trade-off trade-offs. And I’m so happy to see, you know, today. I mean, I’m very happy with my career, and I got a good thing going. And, you know, I see millions of people around me getting their opportunity to live independently. So I see this wave, and it’s awesome. It’s really fun. And it’s even cooler to meet people like you who are like, Yeah, I was there at the very beginning. And wasn’t necessarily traveling. It was just location independence. But now I got it. Now I traveled the world. I’m getting ready to spend four months in Africa. I mean, this is all like this. This gives me a ton of entertainment. Yeah, totally agree, brother. Yeah, it’s a fun, fun thing to be a part of. I’m excited to see where it goes. Next, what do you think’s next? Like what’s this whole digital nomad remote work thing? I mean, what’s the next thing on the horizon?
51:20
Matt Bowles
Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, certainly, the pandemic made a lot of people, whether they’re running companies, or whether they’re working for companies, both I guess this job can be done without coming into an office, which is, of course, what we’ve all been saying, for years. And so I think people are starting to demand, you know, the workers are now starting to demand more location independent benefits, right, and more freedom to work when they want, where they want, how they want, you know, as long as they get it done, you know, moving towaresults-based results-based economy, as time-basedo a time-based economy where somebody’s checking what time you come in, and what time you leave, and how long you’re sitting there and stuff like that. Right? So I think that is really, and then I think, you know, podcasts like yours are inspiring people. Wow, now that I can work from home, maybe that means I could also work from the beach in Thailand, Brazil, or wherever I want to be, because why not? No. And so I think a lot of people are starting to realize that and, you know, I think you know, your podcast and the people that you’ve interviewed as this has been an incredible resource to people who are in that exact transitory moment. They’re like, okay, all of a sudden, I can work from home, they’re technically I’m location independent. So what now can I do to design my lifestyle and make things incredibly exciting and fulfilling and they come across your podcast and you know, they listen through it, man, and just gives them amazing ideas and amazing case studies and amazing examples, and, you know, is helping people to sort of live their best life, man, I think that’s where we’re going.
52:48
Chase Warrington
Yeah, well, and your and your podcast as well, which we’re going to talk about in a second and link to in the show notes, of course. But I want to say that one of the motivations behind starting this podcast was to showcase different ways that people could build location independence, or at least live abroad, like actually location independence, which I would say was like a notch down, because not everybody cares about that like some people just really want to be able to, you’re they’re married to an Argentine and they want to be able to move to Argentina with their family, but they can’t take their job, or they don’t know how they’re going to make that happen. Or some people have a desire to do what you’re doing and travel equally, whatever the case. So I really wanted to showcase something like, there’s a ton of people that are just living abroad for a year or a month for their whole life. And they’re doing it in different ways from, you know, figure going on student visas to building location independent businesses to being a flight attendant to whatever it might be, there are all these different avenues you can get And I really never thought about it until, you know, talking with people like yourself, like real estate. I’ve never thought about estate being one of those avenues of a location-independent independent lifestyle, kind of contradictory, right? Like, it’s like this big giant thing that a lot of people think is the thing, weighing them down and keeping them from being able to go somewhere. And in fact, it could be your ticket to going abroad. So that’s all kind of hitting me right here as we’re talking. That’s a very cool element of this whole conversation.
54:08
Matt Bowles
Well, one of the things that are important to realize, I think, is the diversity of things that can be made location-independent dent businesses, r? get. And real estate certainly is not a traditionally virtual category, right? When you think about it, I own a real estate brokerage, owning a real estate brokerage is not something that people would simply currently think would facilitate a lifetime full-time itinerant world travel that has absolutely nothing to do with business. Right. And so one of the things that I find interesting about my show as well is that I get to interview people and sometimes I interview people that also have built businesses in completely non-traditionally ally virtual categories, but they’ve built in with location-independent dent infrastructure. I interviewed one of my very good friends, actually Jen McGee, who owns an architectural design company. She has fortune 500 clients, you know, Barnes and Noble, and her corporate image. She won an award for designing duty- free shops at JFK Airport in New York City. She has this caliber of business and she runs the company while traveling full- time as an itinerant nomad. She was actually in my remote year program. So we were together for like, 12 months traveling the world. You know, I interviewed another friend of mine, Diraja Celia. We’re in Kenya together in Nairobi for a month, right? And that’s where I met her. And she was there for a month just nomadic, you know, and we’re talking about business and, you know, so what, what’s your business, you know, and she said, Oh, I run a live events company. Okay, all of the live shows pre-COVID writes, all of the lin-persons on events take place in the United States, and she gets 100,000 paying customers per year that attend her live events in the United States. And she runs that business while traveling the world. I interviewed her on my podcast from Nairobi, Kenya, as we were just there chilling, hanging out with no business purposes and running our remote businesses that all in you know, things that are back in the state. So it’s amazing what people are.
56:02
Chase Warrington
Yeah, it’s so it’s inspiring, man. Well, I would highly recommend people listening if you enjoy about abroad, and especially if you about abroad for these types of reasons, then really recommend checking out the maverick podcast, you could let you tell us a little bit more about it more generally, what you’re speaking what you’re talking about, and we’ll link to it in the show notes. But I listen, I’m a fan. And that’s why it’s so cool to have you here on the show. You’ve been doing it a lot longer than me. So you know, kudos to you once again, a pioneer.
56:28
Matt Bowles
Well, thanks, brother. Yeah. So you can listen to the maverick show with Matt Bowles, wherever you are listening to this podcast, just type in the maverick show with Matt Bowles. And there you will see it. And you know,lly started because I was nomadic full- time Chase. And I started just getting into these incredible conversations, you know like I can remember I was just one time on a rooftop in Thailand. And I just met these other nomads. And I was like, wait, what do you do? Well, I mean, just like the story I’m telling you about, like the raja we’re in Nairobi, Kenya, where like, what you do, what you run, what kind of business and you’re here in Kenya, wait, what? And it was like this, I was like, I was like, I’ve got to, like, share this with other people likewise, I need to turn the microphones on and record this. so other people can hear about this. And it’s not just me meeting somebody at a party and having a one- time conversation, but also recording them so other people can listen and go back. And so I was like, I’ve got to do a podcast because I just started meeting so many incredible digital nomads has built these fascinating businesses, or you know, just had these incredible travel stories and adventures and were telling me about things and I was like, Wouldn’t it be awesome if we could just record this and just let the world listen in on these conversations and understand how you build that business? Like because with each of these people, I dissect it like wait a minute, how did you build that? How do you run it? How does it work? How do you manage your staff from abroad? What happens if this or this happens, how do you handle that? What tips do you have for people that are at these different points in their journey and so we break all of that down pull out actionable tips and tactics that people can use in their own life both in terms of the entrepreneurial stuff as well as the lifestyle design stuff and we talked about travel stories and adventures and so puts a lot of people on to these incredible international experiences that they can just put on their bucket list and you know, now be aware of to go and do so super fun conversations. Most of them are over a bottle of wine, you know, we justly open a bottle of wine at the beginning of the show and just drink through it and just have these you know, casual conversations about you know, travel in the Nomad life and location independence and how to build remote businesses and all that kind of stuff. So super, super fun. So yeah, wherever you’re listening to this, just type into the maverick show with Matt Bowles. It would be amazing to get your feedback so check out the show and love to hear what folks think of it
58:32
Chase Warrington
Nice yeah, it’s a lot of fun and I feel like such a prude I mean you invited me for a glass you know glass or a few of wine and you know here we are drink list on my boring about abroad so next time I’m having you back for an about abroad happy hour where we do we do normally accompany it with a cocktail drink of your choice whether it be tea, coffee, beer, wine, whatever ur your thing. And yeah, well, we’ll have a good time.
58:55
Matt Bowles
I love it, man. That sounds amazing
58:57
Chase Warrington
We have a new tradition abroad that I want to end with today. The previous guest left a question for you. They didn’t know it was you, they just left a question. you’re gonna leave a question for the next guest. You don’t know who that person is. So this question I’m seeing for the very first time right now and we’re gonna hear your answer and then we’ll get your question once we’re off air. Are you ready?
59:15
Matt Bowles
I guess so hit me with that.
59:17
Chase Warrington
I mean, you didn’t know this is coming to us, you know, Sideswipe. All right, here we go. So if you were going to put down roots right now, where would you be putting down your roots?
59:27
Matt Bowles
Rio de Janeiro in Brazil
59:28
Chase Warrington
Oh, okay. Elaborate. For us real quick.
59:30
Matt Bowles
I mean, Brazil is just magical, you know, and the harder part about that was picking Rio, you know, over Sao Paulo, or some other parts of Brazil. I mean, I think Brazil is for me, just an incredibly magical place. It’s just every time I step foot in that country, it’s just enchanting. It just has an energy about it, the music and the culture. I mean, kind of similar to what I was talking to you about what West Africa is right with Ghana and you know, Nigeria and these kinds of places. I mean, a very similar vibe that I feel there in terms of how music and dance infuse that Ultras street parties, you know, I mean, it’s just it’s a way that people approach life. I think that inspires me, you know what I mean? It’s just regularly just prioritizing things like, like street parties and music and dance and beach life and you know, all of that kind of stuff, man. And so every time I go there, it just does really good things for my soul and my spirit. And I just look forward to going back. So if I had to pick one spot, man, that would probably be it
1:00:22
Chase Warrington
Man if you know, what I love about talking with you is you have amazing energy and you approach life with a zest that I think a lot of us probably envy and want to emulate. So keep that up, man. Keep that energy flowing. I see it in your social media that you put out there. And I hear it in your podcast and talking with you. It’s even much more apparent, but it’s contagious. And it’s awesome on many levels. So man, keep that up.
1:00:46
Matt Bowles
Thank you, brother. Appreciate that. Man. I feel the same about you, bro. I’m a big fan of the show. And I love what you’re doing as well, man.
1:00:52
Chase Warrington
Yeah. Well, thank you. This was great. We will do the happy hour there. We’ll be around to force you into it. Whether you want to or not, I hope anyway but thank you so much for safe travels and joy. I look forward to following along and catching up again soon.
1:01:05
Matt Bowles
I appreciate it, man. And if you’re in your listeners want to learn more information about any of the stuff that I’m up to, like if they’re interested, we have so much free stuff like all of our real estate information is free, consults are free. All this stuff is entirely free. So if anybody wants to learn more about this stuff that we’ve been talking about, I’ve actually created a special page just for your listeners, so they can just go to the Maverick show.com/about abroad. And there we’ve got a completely free white paper on real estate investing for digital nomads. We’ve got a link to schedule a completely free video consultation with the Maverick investor group. We can talk to you, answer all your questions, you know, and see if we can add value to you. And if folks are interested in remote year, since I’m an alumnus just thinking about this, as we were talking about I’ll add this to the actual have an affiliate link for a remote year, which gives you a discount if you want to do a remote year. So we’re interested in getting a discount when you do a remote year. If you’re interested in that, I will put that link here as well. So you can just use that and you can grab a discount if anybody’s interested. I hadn’t even thought about that. But since we’re talking about it’s like let’s get let’s give people as much value as possible. So I’ll put that on the page as well. And then and then of course a link to the podcast and everything. So if you just go to the Maverick show.com/about, abroad, all this, all that stuff will be in one place. And of course every listener of the sh gets VIP treatment at Maverick. So just come through, let us know you heard us here and we’d love to support everybody and provide as much value as we can.
1:02:29
Chase Warrington
Yeah, well forgive me for not asking but 100% of all those links are going to be in the show notes. And so everybody can just access those with a quick flick. And yeah, I mean, there’s zero doubt about the value there. So super cool for you to offer the remote your link. I imagine a lot of people are interested in that. I’m interested in that. I want to go anyway, yeah, that’s all that’s in the show notes, everybody, you can take a look and go check all that out. Dude, thank you so much, man. I hope you have a great trip. And as I said, I look forward to following along.
1:02:57
Matt Bowles
Thanks, Chase. Appreciate it.
1:03:02
Chase Warrington
Thanks for tuning in today from wherever you are in the world. Once again, I’m Chase and this has been another episode about abroad. For those of you wondering how you can best support the show, I have made it super simple for you. Just go over to the show notes of the episode that you’ve just finished listening to and click on one of the two following links about abroad.com/newsletter to get our monthly newsletter, no spam guaranteed, or rate this podcast.com/about abroad where you can quickly and easily leave a review for the show. It’s not just important to me it also helps more wonders just like you find us. Finally don’t forget to subscribe on your podcast platform of choice and we will be right back
