World travels with the Founder of Remote Tribe

0:03 

Chase Warrington 

Hey, what’s going on everyone, welcome to another episode of About Abroad where it’s my job to introduce you to people who have built amazing lives for themselves in various foreign corners of the globe. We’re talking with expats and thought leaders about moving abroad, remote work, visas, and all the fun and practical knowledge that you need to know to follow in their footsteps. If you’ve ever dreamed of making a life for yourself overseas, maybe working remotely or embracing long-term travel, retiring or studying abroad, or even just taking a peek inside life beyond your borders, you’ve landed in the right place. This episode is brought to you by my friends over at the fez agency. Did you all know that Portugal is currently ranked the number one country in the world for remote workers? Yeah, that’s right. Number one in the entire world with the beautiful weather mixed with the history-friendly people incredible coastline and awesome cuisine, it is really easy to understand why. And in fact, some of our most popular episodes here on abroad are about Portugal. So I already know that you all love it. And I’m not going to waste your time trying to convince you to go visit. But what I will try to convince you of is planning your next company retreat there. And when you do to us the fez agency does agency is local, right? They’re from Porto, with people on the ground to help you plan your company retreat, they can map out every single detail of your off-site anywhere in the country of Portugal. So that way you can arrive you can unwind and recharge with your teammates. Without the stress. You all know you love it there. I know you’ll love it there. So let’s get your team there. And the next time you’re planning a company off-site, consider Portugal and then contact my friends over at the fez agency to make it happen. You can visit them via the link in the show notes. My guest today is Andrew Williams. He joins me as the founder of a remote tribe and is just one of those all-around great digital nomads that are in love with traveling the world and sharing how to do that at a very high level with the rest of the world. So we had a blast. We just kind of needed out on being a digital nomad and what the future of work looks like and the future of travel for people who want to call different parts of the world home. A lot of fun talking with Andrew, I’ll let you guys dive right into it and enjoy it as much as I did. Please help me in welcoming Andrew to about abroad. Yeah, man, so it’s a little early there for you this morning. We’re both sipping on coffee. Getting this thing started. I expect good things but powered by coffee for sure.

2:30  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, I guess it’s chilly there as well. Well, you are in France, right?

2:33  

Chase Warrington

Yeah, exactly. I’ve just made the transition from Spain to France. So I’m dealing with a little bit colder weather but you know that it’s getting better as we speak. And I’m happy I’m enjoying the new scenery.

2:43

Andrew Williams   

Are you south or north of France?

2:45  

Chase Warrington  

I’m in the South. I’m like just north of the border of Spain. So

2:50  

Andrew Williams  

That’s a good spot.

2:51

Chase Warrington    

It’s French Catalonia, which I don’t know if you did, like do you think it’s a well-known thing that Catalonia extends into brand though?

3:00 

Andrew Williams  

I didn’t know it myself. Yeah,

3:02  

Chase Warrington 

I think it’s like I feel like I have known this. I spent a good bit of time in Spain. So maybe I kind of knew this in the back of my head but I know like you know for most of my life and probably most people think that Catalonia is we’re just associated with Spain right? Like oh, it’s that area that we’re Barcelona is that wants to secede from Spain. And that’s, that’s what people think of but I guess like traditionally, I’m no expert on this at all. But traditionally, Catalonia was more like a region kind of like the Basque country and also sort of region, and the border between Spain and France is a relatively new thing. It got split and so it’s weird like, like hearing people speak Catalan like the road signs are written in Catalan in this part of France. The second language is Catalan people speak French, but they also speak Catalan. And I even met a guy who is a French guy who identified himself as Catalan. Like he was like, oh, no, I’m Catalan like, but you’re from France. It’s like, yeah, I’ve got to learn first. I thought it was super cool. I don’t know this. I mean, you’re a world traveler. You’re a digital nomad at heart. So like, I know that these kinds of things probably appeal to you. But for me, I’ve like totally nerd out on this kind of stuff. 

4:06  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, I mean, in Europe is pretty common. You’ve got like, a lot of people mixed. Now a lot of different nationalities getting married and stuff like that. So it’s, it’s pretty Europe is pretty global. So to say,

4:17 

Chase Warrington  

yeah, it’s a little like a globe and a continent in a lot of ways. You’re, you’re sort of the product of that, right? Like you’re from, like, where do you tell people you’re from? I mean, you’ve

4:25  

Andrew Williams  

Yes, I mean, you I tell people. I mean, usually, I don’t want to talk about that. But when if someone is really curious, I just tell them you know, I’m half Romanian have British I’ve been split between the two countries. So I grew up traveling a lot and then also studied abroad. So quite international since a young age, I would say,

4:43  

Chase Warrington  

wow, yeah. Do you think it was sort of like in your blood from the beginning then to like you were kind of predestined to go off and become a bit of a global citizen?

4:51

Andrew Williams   

So it was just circumstances I think, you know, globalization now is hitting everywhere. So more and more people are traveling everywhere. We’re pretty lucky to do that. I mean, the ones that can are lucky enough to just choose where they want to live and work. It is pretty amazing. But I just think it gave me the courage to travel and meet people. A lot of people told me Oh, I don’t know how you can do that. You’ll be courageous to do that, but it’s kind of a limiting belief, you know, and what, why be stuck to a place when there are so many other nice things to see in the world? Just just a waste?

5:20 

Chase Warrington  

I agree. What do you think the limiting beliefs are? Like? Like, why do we generally I mean, they’re, you know, digital nomads and expats, people who are like traveling the world a lot, like still a small fraction of the global population. Even though that fraction has, you know, maybe 10x In the last year, or two or three or whatever, it’s still a small fraction of the global population. What do you think the limiting belief comes from for the Gen pop?

5:45

Andrew Williams    

It’s a very good question. I never thought about it, but I’m pretty sure a lot of people aren’t limited to, you know, the place they grow up, I think he’s just out of security and safety. Most of all, if you go down to the root cause and just convenience, you know, I mean, it’s not easy to travel 12 hours on the other side of the globe, where you don’t speak the language, and it’s really weird, you know, like you go to from Europe, you go to places like South Korea or Japan, and then you’re in a different world, but I think it’s more I think about convenience and education, Indian education in the way that you know, like, definitely growing up and upbringing and all that stuff. But I think I think it will change a lot. Like I think it will change a lot like the new generation is growing rapidly, internationally, especially in the big city. So people move around, they meet new cultures, so they’re gonna become more curious. Now, it’s hard to tell, you know, what, how is going to be like, but you’re always going to have you know, more people on the national side who just don’t want to leave the country, and then more people on the international side who want to discover it’s hard to tell who is who but

6:42  

Chase Warrington  

what, what drives you. I’m curious, like, what I always think about the like, the push-pull factors, like were You pushed to go see the rest of the world, you know, like, some people just like, felt like, Okay, I gotta get out of where I am, I need to go see somewhere else. Or some people are just like, like that, you know, a light at the end of the tunnel that they can’t help but walk towards? Where do you fall on the spectrum?

7:03  

Andrew Williams

Yeah, I think I was mostly pulled because I’m a very curious person. I used to read a lot when I was younger, and my parents had a lot of books in their library. So I think out of curiosity, I just want to discover more and more. It’s kind of like a drug, like a nice drug where you know, you want to see more. And as you, as you grow older, I think you want to discover more and more. So yeah, that That’s it. I think I’m just fascinated by different cultures and different people can be tiring sometimes, but I think is very, very rewarding.

7:30  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, agree. I can relate to that. Like I didn’t, I didn’t leave my home country the US until I was 18. And I’ve been so I didn’t have this like origin story is like a traveling family or something like that, which is kind of interesting. I was like, my, my parents were a flight attendant and a pilot. So like, in a lot of ways, I was thinking you would think that I was set up for travel success, I guess, but I wasn’t. And then all of a sudden, like, I just got a little taste of it. And kind of like you said it was like frogs. Like I had someone on the podcast recently who said that they felt like they came alive for the first time. Like they were seeing life for the first time they went, I think they went to Italy and you know, tasted Italian wine for the first time. You know, they’re maybe 16 1718 years old, like add wine, her Italian tasted, you know, the food and was just like, oh my god, I’m alive for the first time. And I thought that was a really 

7:30 

Andrew Williams   

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the best gains you get from travel is it gets you out of your comfort zone. So you have to start developing your own, you know, persona, I would say so you maybe you learn a new language you see a different way of cooking or speaking another pretty amazing language. I mean, in Europe is pretty as a European, you know, you’re used to all these different cultures, because you’ve just taken a train for like two hours, and then you’re in a different country. But if you come from the States or Australia or Africa bulblets it is so much different.

8:51

Chase Warrington   

Yeah, the space thing is so strange how that morphs your vantage point of like, what reality is in terms of travel because I mean, you like you just said if you travel a couple of hours by train or a quick Ryanair flight across Europe, you can be in a whole new world in a matter of an hour or two and me from the States, I’ve we used to drive 15 hours in a day to get from North Carolina to Florida to go visit family and like you know, not that much change. 

9:18 

Andrew Williams   

Yeah, that’s the cool part. But you have that’s why I love it. It’s just it’s still so different. It’s amazing. 

9:22  

Chase Warrington 

Well, let’s talk a little bit about your background. Because I’m curious, I know you as this guy who owns it and started a remote tribe and I follow the content that you create. We’re going to talk about that, of course, but I don’t know your background at all sort of like where you got how you got started in this world and some of the places you’ve lived or traveled to. So I’m just going to open it up super broad. Like, tell us a little bit about your past and history and how you got to where you are today. 

9:46

Andrew Williams    

Yeah, sure. So I’ve been working in digital marketing for about 12 years now. I started working in small agencies in Scandinavia, and then I moved to central Europe and western Europe, and it was mostly about you know, optimizing the websites analyzing the data for the clients, and stuff like that, so I got into digital marketing since I was young, I also have a computer science background. And then it was pretty straightforward after that to, you know, go into consultancy, get some clients to start working for myself, I found that to get very liberating just like a digital nomad to be able to make your own money and not depend on a job. So I started doing that I worked as a consultant for a few companies. Some of them were, for example, co-working spaces, you know, real estate agencies, and eCommerce businesses. So I’ve done consulting for a lot of these clients. And then I saw the trend coming up on, you know, basically decentralizing your life by working in a co-working space, or living in a co-living space and stuff like that. So that was upcoming. And I think Kobe just accelerated that. And that’s the moment when COVID hit. And so people started working from home, I was sure that that’s gonna open a new Pandora box. So it did actually. And we see now companies even like air b&b, they don’t call you into the office anymore. They don’t have I mean, they have an HQ but it’s hard to use. We’re having people every day. So then I just, I knew something big is coming. So I started this platform for, and it’s actually a community as well, social media for digital nomads, and also remote workers and experts, I will say we’ve put a lot of experts been interested in our content Karmenu trying to educate people and inform people about what’s out there in terms of topics like the visa know where to work from co-working spaces, the best co-living spaces there in the world. I lived in some and I worked in some but not in all of them, obviously, not yet. And we are we’re trying to spread out the word and tell people that it’s possible that a lot of limiting beliefs are so when it comes to how to work remotely. There are a lot of jobs, including jobs in the medical sector, they can do online, like the kinds of online nurses, I don’t know exactly what it’s called there. You know, like we’ve got lawyers working remotely, setting up remote companies, it’s pretty amazing. So the sky’s the limit, obviously, in my view, I don’t think we’re going to have all the companies being distributed in the future, because you still need to know, you want to have artists and workshops and doctors are not able to work remotely, but you will have a lot of jobs coming up fully remote capture, and more startups becoming even more distributed.

12:15  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, this is the most fascinating part for me, of course, all these tech companies have been working remotely for some time and leveraging technology. They’re

12:24 

Andrew Williams 

not all of them. And not fully but that’s not always getting butter. Yeah,

12:29  

Chase Warrington  

yeah, no, no, I think what’s interesting, though, is like there have been those companies there. But they’ve been little startups, little, you know, little teams relatively. And now you’re seeing big tech companies like Airbnb, for instance. And then even more fascinating, I think is like, the more traditional jobs like you talked about with like doctors and nurses and lawyers, these kinds of jobs moving to a remote setting opens up this Pandora’s box.

12:50

Andrew Williams   

Yeah, it’s true. And I mean, Airbnb is making a huge announcement today. I don’t know exactly why he’s I haven’t checked, but it might release a new product around remote working. So it’s going mainstream. It shows that I mean, I think a lot of people knew that this way of working was the old way of working was our pay. And you know, there was that comes from the Industrial Age mostly, or the 50s with your cubicles.

13:13  

Chase Warrington  

You explain that and it kept for like, like, I love this analogy. But for somebody that doesn’t know the analogy, can you like, like, elaborate on that? I think it’s Yeah,

13:21  

Andrew Williams  

sure. So So I think that the way we used to work until two years ago was probably set up in the 50s, where you know, you were using a lot of paper, you had to be there in person, you had all these people carrying papers, you didn’t have computers didn’t have a lot of things were so productive before. And we didn’t have internet, which makes a huge difference. So I think we were stuck in that mindset. And a lot of companies still are, I think it’s a cultural thing around companies, and mostly the older the established companies like the blue chips, where, you know, they still want people in the office, and they think that presence is a thing people must be in there. Again, it’s very interesting, because it’s kind of a limiting belief at the corporate level. And it all comes down from the top. I think like, you know if you have a CEO with vision, and that can create a company, a good culture in a remote company, or like a remote company with a good culture that again, they will understand there is no need for an office. So I think, yeah, I think it was time for a change. Now it’s happening. And it’s really good news. I mean, you know, sometimes I was a few years back, I was in some offices with this, like really, really bad neon light and it was sunny outside in London, and I was just thinking, Why am I here? I don’t have to be here. I’ve got the internet anywhere in the world, you know, especially south of France.

14:40 

Chase Warrington   

Yeah. Where there’s there’s sunshine. When there’s sunshine in London. You don’t want to be sitting under the neon lights inside. Right?

14:45

Andrew Williams    

Yeah how do see the revolution, Chase?

14:47 

Chase Warrington   

I think it’s super interesting. The analogy you made about the Industrial Revolution which is one of my favorites is this comparison to the different revolutions that we’ve had throughout human history. So you started with like the agricultural revolution, which took hunter-gatherers and move them to more of like a sedentary lifestyle, which some would argue actually as they went from this like tribal nomadic setting to Okay, we’re gonna be sedentary, which is good because we always have food. And that’s great. But on the flip side of that, that people became more sedentary, they started working a lot harder to there are arguments to be made that the agricultural revolution took us back a step in terms of like, what we would call today work-life balance or work-life integration. And then moving to the next phase is like the Industrial Revolution, and like, you know, assembly lines and 40-hour workweek and showing up to the factory. And so then this next step is like, is it the remote revolution where you have, you know, you use the internet, you work from wherever you want, maybe the four-day workweek, or the Who cares how many hours or days a week you work long as you get your work done? the thing becomes a reality and more than the norm than the exception. So I’m hopeful for that.

15:53  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, me too. Absolutely. Yeah, let’s see where that goes. Because you know, it might be I hope, it’s not going to be a disappointment for lots of people. And we’re not going back to something like the office, honestly, I hope it’s going to evolve into something very nice. Like many communities, like rural communities, that’s how I see it going by see the cities losing a lot of importance in the world in the way that it like in terms of demographic and opportunities, because now opportunities are everywhere, basically online, one thing you raised her very well is, I think, around the Industrial Revolution, and you know, the factory working hours, like, you know, we have an eight hour working day, because there were three shifts of eight hours plus 24 hours. And I mean, if you think about that, it’s so obsolete, it’s, it’s basically like I talk with a lot of friends and they’re productive, mostly maybe three, four hours, then they just take breaks, because there’s no point. So that’s another thing, which I’m happy with getting rid of like saying eight hours in the workplace, when probably are more productive, like three or four.

16:52  

Chase Warrington  

I saw I saw a statistic,

16:53  

Andrew Williams  

that means nothing wrong with that. I mean, I mean, come on, just chill. Do you know?

16:57  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, there’s, there are two things to point out here like, like, one is that as you said, three hours, like the average in office workers are productive for about two to 2.5 to three hours per day, that’s when they’re getting worked on. The rest is like a mixture of breaks and think, you know, meetings and just basically, you’re just present and you’re and you’re getting paid for those five hours. The other one is that we’ve like 50x, our productivity over the last 100 years because of technology and all kinds of things that we have at our disposal, but we’ve maintained this same input of hours per week that we’re supposed to work. So like that doesn’t like what’s the point in becoming so much more productive? If we’re not going to get some of that time back? It just doesn’t make sense. 

17:40  

Andrew Williams  

I don’t know. Maybe it’s a legacy thing, or most likely a control thing. Maybe it’s a way of controlling people and I mean, it can be dangerous for a lot of companies, I guess for people to do that they’re freer because they have more choices. So I never it’s also a mystery to me why we are so more productive these days. And we still have to work eight hours a day. I don’t understand that. If someone can explain after the podcast, I’ll be really happy. 

18:07  

Chase Warrington 

Yeah, I think it’s corporate greed. I mean, not to sound like all anti-capitalist or something like I don’t. I’m all for making money and you know profiting and things like that. But like, it’s just like, oh, well, why not keep squeezing more out of the turnip? If we can. Like there’s there’s more to be gained here. 

18:23  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, probably. That’s it. Yeah, it’s the race. Yeah. And you also have a lot of competition.

18:28  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah. I 100% agree. I think a lot of us are just waking up to the fact that like, obviously, you know, it’s a little cliche to say, like, there’s more to life than work and stuff. But taking that a bit further now and just saying like, but, like, what can we do with all this extra time that we’ve gained in this freedom, you know, to live like you’re living and like, whatever it is, it’s not traveling and exploring for everybody 

18:49 

Andrew Williams   

But For me, hobbies can be family time

18:52 

Chase Warrington  

It can be investing in your community, there’s so much thing, so many things we can do that, you know, that will serve us further down the road.

18:59  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, I want to ask you something about that product. Yeah, just go ahead. 

19:02  

Chase Warrington 

I’ve got a million questions too. It’s, I’m sure we’ll, we’ll get to like 10% of them. You mentioned the rural communities. And I also am on that train with you, which I think is a very cool spin-off of this whole remote revolution and, and digital nomads and things like this is that a lot of these rural communities this is a big thing in Spain that there has been this brain drain from the rural communities the cities have absorbed all the brainpower that you know, all the talent migrated away and therefore you know, these communities are dying, you’ve got villages that you can buy for 100 bucks because they’re just decrepit, and falling apart. And so anyway, I think the revitalization of these areas is going to be a cool thing. And I would love to see digital nomads expats people who want to like go in and invest in life in a community you know, put their put themselves there and see what they can do for those local areas.

19:55 

Andrew Williams   

Yeah, I think that’s coming as well. I have a feeling that’s gonna happen in the Next 10 years, I think people will flock to cities, but not all of them. But I think cities will become more and more and more expensive with inflation and the quality of life is usually not the best inside the cities. And now you can organize communities outside, it’s going to be like our grandparents used to live, but with internet and separate rooms. And then, you know, there’s a big awareness now about, you know, our organic food and organic things. So it does make sense that people try and grow their food or break with the community. It’s interesting is like, we might be going back to a different type of living than we used to do before just because of the current economic and social situations in most western countries. And maybe that’s a good thing I like to see the positive things in things because you know, I mean, that would mean an upgrade in life and if people are happier that way, why not? Doesn’t I like maybe it’s okay to have less money but have a stress-free life and live more and enjoy your family more?

20:59  

Chase Warrington  

Sounds pretty idyllic act like it sounds like that shouldn’t be counterintuitive, but it is

21:04  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah. Especially nowadays. Yeah, exactly where everyone is running after the money on the hamster wheel.

21:09  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, exactly. Do you feel like you got off the hamster wheel? Or like, were you ever on it? And Or are you off it yet?

21:15 

Andrew Williams   

Yeah, I was a bit all I was in the corporate life for a few years. And honestly, I didn’t like it that much. Because there’s corporate life attracts a specific type of people. I’m not saying it’s the wrong thing to do. Like, you definitely can have a corporate career. It’s just that feels like, you know, people have to do certain things because everyone else is doing it. So, you know, I was I wasn’t built that way. And, you know, also, I feel like you’re kind of trapped. Because you can’t say whatever you think there’s specific conduct and in some companies is bad. So you can’t say things. So I was there. I didn’t like it. So obviously, I decided not to stay.

21:52  

Chase Warrington  

I think that’s kind of like the norm for a lot of people. Right? Like, you got a little taste of it. Probably just because society told us that’s what you thought we were supposed to do. And then you go wait for a second, this doesn’t feel right. What do I need to do differently? We’ll be right back to the show after a quick break. For a note from our sponsor. This season is brought to you by my good friends over at insured nomads. They’re the absolute best in the business when it comes to providing health travel and medical insurance for nomads, expats, and just all forms of world travelers. I know insurance is often something that’s overlooked when we’re fantasizing about traveling the world. But it’s an absolute necessity that we address this because often the policy you have in your home country isn’t going to cover you while you’re abroad. And it’s also a requirement as a lot of people may not realize to buy private travel or ex-pat insurance, as it’s called sometimes to obtain a visa or even enter certain countries. So, fortunately, there are companies like insured nomads to help us with this. Not only do they have excellent coverage and great prices, but they’re also providing a first-class experience with additional perks and best-in-class technology via their app. It’s an amazing experience, I can’t recommend it enough. Now, this is a company that was built by world travelers for world travelers, so they know what it’s like to find yourself in a difficult medical situation abroad. And they want to keep you from having that same bad experience. So the next time you’re planning a trip abroad, whether it’s for a week or a lifetime, check out insured nomads via the link in the show notes. Hey, guys, so many of you are right in asking how to support the show best. And if you are listening and made it this far into the episode, then I’m going to presume that perhaps you’re one of those people that wants to help. So if that’s the case, the best thing you could do right now would be to open up the app that you’re currently using to listen to this episode, go to the little arrow thing that allows you to share, select it and share it to one of your social media networks. That would be a huge, huge help, you can feel free to tag me at DC Warrington and I’ll slap you a virtual high-five from wherever I am in the world. Thank you so much for the support. We appreciate it. And I hope you enjoyed listening to the rest of this episode.

23:56  

Andrew Williams  

Did you work in a corporate environment before?

23:59  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, kind of I’m always kind of skeptical to call it corporate because it was not the industry that I was in was very corporate like finance and insurance and but the company I worked for was great forward thinking especially for like an American company that just did have an influence emphasis on work-life balance and time off and things like that. So I was not in a super corporate environment. But I did wear you know, like a blazer and tie or a suit and tie. But a lot of days of the week and I traveled a lot for work but I was always remote. So I never worked in an office and that was always really important to me. I just thought that at the time that was like the pinnacle of what location and like the closest thing I could get to location independence, you know, 13 years ago or whatever. And was it a sales job? Basilar No, but it was a relationship job. Okay, so it was you know, you were I was traveling a lot I was meeting with our customers. I was on the road a good bit and working from home and you know, working from coffee shops and stuff. So I did get that sense of what it meant. so I guess it was some form of like a digital nomad or I got my training wheels in digital nomadism there. And then later it became more of like a more of a thing where I was like, I just have to have real location independence and not be like limited to a state or a country even like, I just need to be able to go where I want to go. That became my priority number one. 

25:19 

Andrew Williams   

Yeah. So how did you get out of the what do you have a plan? Or how do you get out of corporate life? It gets you plan.

25:24  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, I mean, it was me, my wife and I were in the same boat. We were both like wanting that location independence but also thought that probably wasn’t attainable, which I mean, it almost wasn’t at that time, but we knew we had to try to get as close as we could. So we did like a staggered approach. She quit her job and started an online business, then a year and a half later, when that was somewhat stable. Like it feels weird to say stable now. Yeah. But somewhat stable. We had a little revenue coming in to support us we moved to Latin America, and I quit my job. We started on that path together. And then I eventually landed at add to it. So since that point, seven or eight years ago, it’s been full location independence.

26:06 

Andrew Williams   

Nice. Well done. Yeah, that sounds like a like, what would be your advice for people who want to build a location-independent lifestyle, I can tell them mine, but I’m just curious about yours.

26:16 

Chase Warrington   

I’m super curious to hear yours. My, initial feedback, whenever somebody asked me that is that you have to be willing to take one big step back to take two steps forward. And so if you’re just if you just can go ahead and bite the bullet and say, I know that eventually, I’m going to get to where I want to get to, I believe you will, if you have that determination, and you make that your priority, but you just commit to yourself that you know, okay, I’m going to be willing to take a step back, I’m gonna make some sacrifices on day one. But one year from now, I’m going to be where I want to be and from there on out, it’ll just be an upward trajectory. That’s me, that’s my advice to people.

26:51  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, I mean, my advice would be to plan a bit and also try to, you know, have delayed gratification in mind when you do that because it’s not going to happen overnight. It’s going to take probably one or two years, and you probably need some cash reserves as well, unless you have like an online job already a remote job, which you can do by the way, we’ve got remote jobs on our website. So just go there and get one what’s the URL? So remote tribe.ly forward slash remote jobs

27:16

Chase Warrington   

will include that in the show notes, of course. That’s great.

27:19  

Andrew Williams

Yeah. So I would say that’s one important thing to plan a bit and have some cash reserves. And the second one is if you have a partner make sure it’s the right person because you both need the same mindset. You have to take some risks. Honestly, I think today’s risk want to have a job, especially in Western countries where things are getting wobbly right now. So I think the risk is less nowadays and now with the online job marketing opening up and having so many remote jobs, I think it’s easier than ever to make that step so you know, just go ahead and destroy it, give it a try, see if you can do it and if you like it and then you know the sky’s the limit I guess

27:53  

Chase Warrington  

Have you met many people that tried and wanted to continue but didn’t like that another way to ask that question is do you think a lot of people that make that commitment end up unhappy with that decision?

28:06  

Andrew Williams  

No, no, I don’t think so. What I noticed is a lot of people wanted to settle down at one point in a specific place so they kind of quit this lifestyle and still kept traveling they kind of settled down in a place they liked but I’ve never met someone sorry about that. Like the f1 is very grateful and you know they have amazing experiences

28:26

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, I agree that that’s generally been my experience as well like people most of the time if they make that leap of faith they’re happy with the decision even if they do end up deciding that that lifestyle wasn’t for them they returned to where they started it they’re happy that they made the decision and you know made the short term sacrifice but at least have the experience 

28:46  

Andrew Williams 

So Chase because you had like you and your wife have experience with starting online businesses what would be you know the top three pieces of advice for people who want to start an online business or Audience

28:58  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, I will be honest I mean my wife Allison is more of the expert I was I was on her gravy train there I guess spin it away she started Etsy shops and so just to be 100% clear and transparent with people it’s not like we set up some sweet eCommerce business all on our own that made millions or some Amazon shop that did well no we had like a couple of Etsy shops that worked well for us that supported our lifestyle for traveling for a couple of years. And it was sufficient but you know, we weren’t lighting the world on fire either my advice to people starts first of all with having a plan you know, just like any business, have a business plan know who your audience is knowing who you’re trying to speak to also if you’re sourcing materials and you want to be a digital nomad be very cautious and very detailed and your approach to this because depending on where you are sourcing materials can change quite a bit. And especially like if you think about things like for instance photography and, and things like this if you have, let’s say you’re making, you’re making widgets and you use some certain type of plastic, and you’re in Peru at the time, and that you’re sourcing your plastic from Peru, and then you move over and you’re living in Italy, that plastic might change. Now you’re sourcing that same plastic, and it looks similar, but it’s pretty different in photos, now you have to go back and change all your photos. So you have to be cognizant of these little details. Because the product will change, you’re selling products. And the end, my third piece of advice is to outsource your weaknesses. So whenever you’re not, don’t try to be everything to everyone, you’re probably not good at all of the details of running a business. So you’re not a web designer, don’t be your web designer. If you’re not an SEO person, don’t be your SEO person. If you’re not an accounting person, find an accountant. It’s impossible to be good at all this.

30:47  

Andrew Williams

Yeah. I mean, it’s hard to scale. Because you’re always going to be trapped into these kinds of tasks like admin tasks, or things that you don’t know how to do that you’re gonna lose a lot of time on those. Rather outsource them if you can.

30:57 

Chase Warrington   

Yeah, absolutely. It’s like the four-hour workweek mentality, right? Like just like outsourcing the things that you’re not good at. So you can focus on what you’re good at

31:06  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, and there are so many places to do it. Right now, you can hire contractors online, you’ve got Fiverr, you’ve got Upwork. So they’re ways around things that you can do and relatively

31:18

Chase Warrington    

cheap to like, like you can actually if you can figure out this is also from the four-hour workweek, like if you can figure out what your worth hourly, right? So let’s say you, you know, you do your month, okay, this is how much money I make a month and after expenses, this is how much I pay myself. So I make 25 bucks an hour. Yeah, theoretically, anything less than 25 bucks an hour that costs you more or less than that you can pay someone else to do, or less than 25 bucks an hour you should pay them to do. And if you take that mentality and you start applying that it can it can work out for you. I think, in the long run, for instance, with this podcast, I can’t do it all. And there’s an awesome team behind me that’s doing a bunch of the details that they’re better at than me, and it makes me do what I do best. And so I don’t know, it’s a positive flywheel if you get it spinning in the right direction.

32:08  

Andrew Williams  

What was the commonality of the online entrepreneurs you met so far? What was their point of success? The main, you know, the main traits that they had, you know,

32:19  

Chase Warrington  

Midco Kruszewski, from that remote life by any chance? He’s, he’s been on the podcast, he has his podcast

32:25  

Andrew Williams 

Unesco. Yeah, I think I’m following him on Twitter. 

32:28

Chase Warrington    

Yeah, probably. He’s, awesome at this. This is what he dives into on that remote life. His podcast is like online entrepreneurs. And he’s even got a company called parable that focuses on successful online entrepreneurs and does deep case studies on them. And you know, the trigger points, the inflection points when companies took off and what made that happen, and it’s just like, packed tons of full of tons of information. So for anybody, like deeply interested in that question, I would defer to MIT go and that, because he doesn’t Well,

33:03 

Andrew Williams   

nice one. Yeah, I’ll check him out. I follow him, but I never had time to listen to the podcast, but it seems like I should.

33:09

Chase Warrington    

Yeah, he’s a good one. Do you have any particular advice yourself? 

33:14  

Andrew Williams

I do. So I mean, obviously, it also depends a lot on the type of business you want to store. But you have to start early, and you’re going to make lots of mistakes. It’s true. And things don’t turn up as they should most of the time. So it might be people who think a few times. So that’s why it’s really good to start early. I think that’s one of my, best pieces of advice. And don’t be afraid to make mistakes and experiment with, you know, different social media channels, different content, different product types, you have to do that. You have to know your market very well, too. But start early, start building your audience. Start being out there, lots of people, and also just be patient, it takes years, honestly, like most of the people I talked to, we got them like one two up to three or five years to have a successful business. So yeah, I mean, this instant gratification is terrible. We have these days with social media. And I don’t know like it’s sometimes I feel like we live in a big lie where everyone seems so successful. But in fact, they’re not.

34:11

Chase Warrington    

We’re all imposters man. That is something I’ve learned. I don’t know if you see that as well. But it’s like everybody has some imposter syndrome if they’re doing anything even a little bit challenging, I think and we all are trying to figure out how to you know how to not be feeling impostor II but 

34:26

Andrew Williams    

Yeah, some people call it the BS economy these days, though.

34:30  

Chase Warrington  

I hadn’t heard that. Yeah, yeah, there’s a

34:33 

Andrew Williams   

a great book called The Bs jobs is written by a guy who I think hates the corporate environment, then, you know, he pinpoints why a lot of jobs are BS. It’s a brilliant book that people should read it is.

34:46

Chase Warrington    

What’s the word? Like? Just what would be an example

34:49  

Andrew Williams 

First of all, you don’t need eight hours to do your job. And second, I think it’s all about these jobs that you know that basically like middle management, they’re used Whereas in most of the cases, and they’re there just to, to be there like is, you know, a lot of secretarial jobs are are useless as well. So a lot of things can be done by one person. So you don’t need so many people. But yeah, I guess everyone knows that work in big companies that, you know, they’re not very efficient.

35:18  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah. There’s a lot of waste in the process, I think. Yeah,

35:23  

Andrew Williams  

yeah. But he’s a great book. And he wrote a few books about the working environment. He’s a very interesting guy. 

35:28  

Chase Warrington  

Oh, I gotta, I gotta check that out. I love that. There’s like more and more content out there that sounds like you and I overlap a lot on and things that we’d like to digest and think about and talk about. I would love to return to the remote tribe. And talk a little bit about a little bit more about what you guys are doing there. And just to give people a feel for what the site is all about, and then maybe go a little bit deeper on some of the things that you’re digging.

35:55  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, absolutely. So So can we write content for aspiring digital nomads, and for remote workers in general, it can be anything from working spaces, and co-living spaces to how to build a business online, and what cards you can use, while still traveling to save up money. So a little bit of everything in regards to remote working and remote lifestyle, we also have a section with remote jobs, which will launch recently where you can go and you know, if you want a job in IT, marketing sales, we’ve got, I think, over 1000 jobs right now. So people can just go there and apply. There’s a job for anyone. So we’re trying to push that bid as well now because I think it makes sense to have a job portal inside our platform. And then we’re building, we’re building something on the side, I can’t talk more about it right now. But we’re trying to do something bigger on the site. We also have a nice Instagram community where people interact with our content. And I’m really happy to see that. And also my LinkedIn is, is pretty packed with info. So just follow us on either the company profile or my LinkedIn, a lot of interesting discussions about the future world of work are happening on LinkedIn. So you should be there. You know, just don’t mind the clickbait and the emotional posts, just ignore that and just follow the right people and the right content. That is there’s great content, very interesting people on their phones, and just connect with people. Yeah,

37:13 

Chase Warrington   

LinkedIn, get a bad rap, I think for a long time, and I’ve returned to it because I enjoy the interactions there. And like you said, if you ignore the junk that’s there, there are a lot of really good conversations. And I think that’s the key is that they’re like, in-depth conversations, I get Twitter and I understand like, you know, and other forms of social media where you like, you have these quick interactions. But I think I’ve become so accustomed to working asynchronously, via the written form with my teammates and partners and things like that, that I enjoy the long form, the more depth that you get from the conversation.

37:47  

Andrew Williams  

Just follow the right people. I’m not I do unfollow people as well is true, you know, as soon as I see something, which is not in a part of the industry, or if you know, if it’s not professional or related to what I’m doing, I just don’t follow because it would be just a waste of time. Yeah. Don’t, don’t be afraid. Just everything is at the touch of a button these days. So yeah,

38:08  

Chase Warrington 

yeah, exactly. It’s cool. What you guys are doing at remote tribe, I love the content you guys put out there. And I think it’s cool didn’t know that there was such a big community forming and also about the job board, which I think is so vital these days. I think back to what you asked me earlier, like, you know, kind of about my beginnings in this world. And my I’ve mentioned it here on the podcast before, but like my wife found my job on a Pinterest board, like my initial job to-do list where you’re like, how to like there weren’t remote. There weren’t location-independent jobs,

38:41

Andrew Williams    

these kinds of niche channels and where you could find this kind of remote jobs I’ve heard about this story is very, very interesting to one of them.

38:46  

Chase Warrington  

Well, I think it’s great now that there’s like websites like yours that are like, literally it’s a job board remote jobs, and they end like that’s an amazing thing. And you have over 1000 on there. That’s insane.

38:58 

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, exactly. And there’s some Oh, a lot, a lot more other websites on the internet. I think there are at least 20 solid websites where people can go and get a job. It’s been democratized a lot, to be frank lately. Like it’s yeah, it’s going mainstream. And it was I agree, it was really hard. Like, I was lucky to go into consulting and get my contracts. And that was location independent, you know, in the last six years, but yeah, it was hard. I agree. It was really hard before

39:21

Chase Warrington    

are there any particular trends that you’re seeing that are there like emerging the in the digital nomad space or remote workspace that could be useful for the audience like something that’s kind of like coming up the on the horizon?

39:34 

Andrew Williams 

Yeah, I think this kind of workstation or you know, remote vocation, so to say locations are coming up. So you know, people go to these camps, remote camps, where they meet people, they work and they learn usually they’re two weeks long or a month-long, and then you go there. You might be traveling during that time, but you work together with new people, you could be working on your project, or you do activities together. Have you learned maybe a new language so they take care of you? So I think that that’s upcoming in terms of trends. Also, I think, again, like I think travel will be changing. I think people will stay longer in their on their holidays. I think Airbnb has made a study on that. And they’re saying that the average stay has increased the number of days in a stay in Airbnb. So I think people will spend more time on so-called holidays, but they might be working as well. So it’s going to be more of a mix between the two workstation types. Yeah, exactly. And I think again, rule tourism I think it’s gonna skyrocket soon. Also, slow travel is a thing we see more trends on that both traveling so that means you go in a location like in a small village or a small city and then you just immerse yourself in the local culture and you spend maybe two or three weeks in this more or less the same place doing small trips around that place. So you learn more by taking less something like that, which is a very interesting, very interesting concept. Also, this conscious traveling is coming strong, you know, people want to live in nature in like these eco-resorts, you know, using less and fewer materials and goods and just, you know, contributing to less, I guess emissions and, and waste.

41:13  

Chase Warrington 

Yeah, smaller living is more sustainable.

41:16  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, minimalism is also will be a thing, like I see people it’s really hard to buy a flat right now in a lot of big cities. So I think the renting model is a thing, unfortunately, it does have advantages as well. But I think you’ll see more and more people living a minimalistic future. Yeah, definitely. I don’t know if it’s a social economic thing, or just that’s the trend of, you know, the lifestyle we’re living at the moment.

41:43 

Chase Warrington   

Yeah, I think also the emergence of all these, you know, digital nomad pieces that are opening up the opportunity to stay in place more than a month or three months. Yeah, yeah, I

41:54  

Andrew Williams 

think that something is a trend like we see a lot of countries with this in these visas. But some of them are complicated to get, and it takes a lot of time, and you need a high income. So it’s like, for example, for Greece, I think you need at least $3,000 a month, or maybe 4000. I think Brazil is a nice one, you have to prove about $1,200 per month income is not that bureaucratic to get one. So it’s pretty easy. But yes, some of them have high requirements. And it’s still good. It’s happening like I’m really happy to see the government’s coming up with that because they see incoming digital nomads, so

42:28  

Chase Warrington

Yeah, somebody on here or on the show earlier was talking about how they helped kind of create some of the digital nomad pieces and he was like talking about us like we were like people applying like they were users of a product or like readers, you know, subscribers to a newsletter like we were is like a business funnel.

42:44  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, it’s kind of like an expert service for digital nomads, because I’m gonna be showing ads are in one-way experts. So they need this certain type of service, which is the digital nomad visa, I guess. Yeah.

42:56  

Chase Warrington  

I think what Gonzalo Hall is doing with Madeira and some of the other digital nomad communities, he makes a really good point often that like, yeah, that’s all great. Like you can provide the visa the mechanism by which you can go stay in a place for a long period, but without the infrastructure and the community there, as we could, you know, make that more a bit more realistic, like without a co-working space, and really good Wi-Fi and other people around you who are like facilities that people say, yeah, as you need, you need all that stuff, too. Yeah, one

43:27 

Andrew Williams   

the thing I noticed in these crowded places is that you need a good community, as you’re saying, that’s one very important and two, you need good facilities. So people hang around and they socialize even more. The problem is a lot of CO CO living companies are trying to make a quality look like I don’t know if they’re trying or they’re not trying. But they’re making people feel like they’re either in a hotel or in a shared space, which is not the point. You need events with community managers, you know, and you also need a bunch of people like if you’d like just like six people in the house, I don’t think it’s enough for the community, because probably half of the people will be away most of the time.

44:02 

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you think’s the right number is that like, more like 3040? Something like that?

44:07 

Andrew Williams   

Yeah, I think everything over I think 50 will be would be good. Even 50 might be too less. But I think anything over 50 Depends on the location and the facilities again, like it’s hard, like if you don’t live in, in a big city where you can have a block or something. It’s hard to put so many people together, but I still think it’s possible. I think it’s still possible in rural farming too.

44:28

Chase Warrington    

Yeah, I do too. I think that’s a big thing. That’s what’s coming in more and you’ve already touched on the sub like those coliving or workstation kind of locations that are in more rural, beautiful, natural scenery, setting small villages, things like that. I think that’s the thing that’s coming or is already here, but will become a bit more mainstream, at least mainstream within this niche. Yeah, exactly.

44:50  

Andrew Williams  

I mean, the CO living space is growing immensely at the moment, especially after COVID and they’re you know, we already have conferences and you’ve got a lot of people building them out. and you’ve got a few big players already in the US. And in Europe, there is a cool company in Belgium. This has some gorgeous spaces gorgeous. And now they expanded to Paris. And I don’t remember exactly the name, but if you just check, check them out in Brussels, you will find that for sure. And yeah, they’re there. You’ve got this kind of boutique, co-living spaces as though they’re probably going to be acquired at one point by the big players. But there are so many options. Yeah, I think it is going well. 

45:25

Chase Warrington   

Yeah, I mean, I didn’t, I don’t think we knew what the word living was. Or maybe it didn’t even exist, like five years ago, I don’t know exactly. But like, it’s a relatively new thing. And to be talking about, like the big players gobbling them up, like that shows you how quickly this is moving 

45:38 

Andrew Williams   

True. and there’s also another industry around that is about facility management and space management there. I think there is a really good opportunity there for entrepreneurs to sell products to these places, like the co-working and CO living spaces, like you know, like a b2b service on how to manage the space, the penance, the problems, I think there’s a good niche there to be explored.

45:59

Chase Warrington    

Absolutely. I agree. I know we didn’t have the name of the place that’s co-living that’s emerging there and Belgium and elsewhere. But are there any names that do come to mind that for somebody who’s kind of listening and unfamiliar with CO living if they wanted to start sort of the top and say, Okay, I’m gonna go stay at an at a nice co-living? Are there any brands out there that you would recommend?

46:20  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, so I used to live in the collective, in London, which is great. I mean, it’s nice it has some issues, you’re always going to have some kind of queer people or like issues in the building with maintenance, but that’s, that’s okay. You know, I think in Europe, I think it’s called perhaps the one from Brussels from Europe but in a better place in Paris. Now two are called co-hubs. And I think there was a nice one I’ve heard about in the US called common you might know this one but it’s more like a big house common so so just just just look out for the number of rooms and all that stuff. I don’t know if you’d like small communities or bigger communities, but the ones that the US tends to be smaller for some reason, I don’t know. Like they’re usually based more like flat shares. So yeah, I think that that will change. So like, like in New York and LA, I think you can, you can live in a big block with more people if you want to, but yeah, this would be the ones and you’ve got Celine, obviously, but I think Selena is pretty expensive. They have a big network in Central and South America. They’ve got a great location. I mean, the business model is great. It’s just that I don’t understand why it’s that expensive. I just don’t know.

47:28

Chase Warrington    

Yeah, affordability is gotta be baked into this as well. As you’ve mentioned earlier with the digital nomad there. I think there’s a misconception sometimes that like digital nomads are stereotypical like an Amazon shop owner who’s made making a million bucks a year as a social media influencer with just like tons of revenue like the average digital nomad is freelancing, you know, making a little bit of money and they’re not meeting these multiple multiples of 1000 euros dollars per month. Yeah,

47:54 

Andrew Williams   

I mean, yeah, some of the visas are more like for expats, like maybe expat couples or something like that, rather than digital nomads, because as a digital nomad, in most of the cases, you’re either an entrepreneur as you’re seeing or freelancing, which are not very, very stable jobs. So you’re you sometimes you’re on the edge, and sometimes you didn’t do very well on until you set up your business. So it can be quite hard. That’s why I’m saying, you know, it’s risky. It’s also very rewarding. Yeah, interesting aspect there. 

48:19  

Chase Warrington  

Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, this was, this was awesome. I feel like we could probably go on for a while. But I feel like we covered quite a bit. And you know, maybe we’ll have to return to cover some of these topics a little more in-depth. But this was a lot of fun, man, thank you so much for joining the show. And once again, if you would just mention where people can go to learn more about remote tribes and follow you. And we’ll put all those links in the show notes as well. Yeah, sure.

48:44  

Andrew Williams  

So if you want to check out our content, just go to the remote tribe that lives. If you want to check out the jobs, we have just gone to remote tribe.ly For slash remote jobs, you know, just Google or name or just look us up on LinkedIn or Instagram. We’re also on Twitter to cover all the major social media channels. Just follow us and ask us questions, you know, very happy to answer that to help you guys. And then JC thanks a lot for having me. I hope we can do another show some other time with like some real niche topics that people haven’t heard about. And we can open more minds.

49:16

Chase Warrington    

Let’s do this. If you’re listening to this, go follow Andrew on LinkedIn or social media, wherever or just come to me and tell us what you would like for us to go deeper on. We did a very broad topic show today where we just talked about a bunch of random things that are interesting to us. But if there’s something we should have gone deeper on, let us know. And we’ll, we’ll do a follow-up on that sounds like a lot of fun. Thanks again, Andrew. Man, this was awesome. Enjoy the rest of your day. Go get another cup of coffee and we’ll get it we’ll get started. Have a good one man.

49:44  

Andrew Williams  

Yeah, you too. Take care.

49:45  

Chase Warrington 

Bye bye. Thanks for tuning in today from wherever you are in the world. Once again, I’m Chase and this has been another episode of about abroad. For those of you wondering how you can best support the show, I have made it super simple for you. Just go over to the show notes of the episode that you’ve just finished listening to, and click on one of the two following links about abroad.com/newsletter to get our monthly newsletter, no spam guaranteed, or rate this podcast.com/about abroad where you can quickly and easily leave a review for the show. It’s not just important to me it also helps more wonders just like you find us. Finally, don’t forget to subscribe on your podcast platform of choice, and we will see you again next week. Thanks again are still away. Hasta luego amigos!